The Avengers talk about Steve.

[proteus_lives]

Greetings True Believers!

Here are a few scans from Avengers #16. The Avengers visit the confessional booth to talk about Cap.

They embrace a theory I've held myself for quite awhile.

Enjoy!



Cap is mourning Bucky and the others react to it.





I've long believed that Steve is the Avatar of America. One Out of Many.

Comments

[shadowpsykie]

someone went to the story today and got a nice load.

[proteus_lives]

Indeed!

[long_silence]

I'm so sick of these talking head issues in both Avengers and New Avengers.

[proteus_lives]

I love'em.

[thanekos]

Hey, Ken Burns has to make his Avengers documentary somehow.

[darkknightjrk]

Honestly, I think this is the more interesting bit out of the entire event. I'm not sure if that's a compliment to Bendis' work or an insult to everyone else, but...there you go.

[shadowpsykie]

I've long believed that Steve is the Avatar of America. One Out of Many.

this makes me think of the one Captain America: Theater of War Ghosts of my Country.

i think that is what alot of people have though. He's the Spirit of America... not America the Government, but America the ideal.

[tammy_moore]

I know it is a stressful situation for them all, but someone needs to fetch those women some sandwiches immediately. Particularly the Black Widow (that is her?). They look as if they actually in the process of starving...also a little like soulless shells, but you can't hold that against someone.

[shadowpsykie]

yeah;... Romita Jr.s are has been... hit or miss for me (mostly miss) lately.

Mod Note

[salinea]

The expression "feed those women some sandwiches" is used to shame women about their bodies. Shaming/body shaming/body policing is one of the things we look for as moderators at Scans Daily. We ask that you not use those sorts of expressions on Scans_Daily. Thanks.

[fifthie]

Nothing says gripping, dynamic writing like putting your characters in a black void in front of an invisible cameraman and have them say your opinions for you.

[proteus_lives]

Just works, doesn't it?

[jlbarnett]

couldn't even put them in a round table. Or in front of a flashback panel

[mullon]

Well, at least they're facing different directions. Beyond that I got nothing.

[practicalcat]

Yeah, if someone wants to do talking heads on a blank background, it's worth making sure that the artist they're teamed up with can do multiple faces. And I don't just mean "a female face" and "a male face".

[geoffsebesta]

I thought you were going to confirm that Cap and Iron Man were lovers.

I guess the avatar thing is pretty cool, though, sorta.

[sharky_chan]

It's never just you.

[perletwo]

Question about this ish: the solicit said something about a romance developing? Whozzat?

[proteus_lives]

Might be refering to Hawkeye/Spider-Woman.

[terra]

I don't really care about Bendis talking heads whatever, I think they work sometimes and sometimes not, but this scene annoyed me because it took the heroism of Bucky's death— Bucky who was Captain America and on this team— and made it all about how terrific Steve is.

Also, I think that's Wasp in the talking head, not Natasha.

[proteus_lives]

Can't be Wasp, she's stll dead.

[tsunamiwombat]

I can appreciate that you like this idea and the almost film like presentation (the editing to have multiple people express the same view eloquently is more of a film or documentary technique) but i'm not sure I agree.

Captain America isn't America, or even an idealization of America. He's a -good man-. Steve Rogers is an idealized human being, who -happens- to be American. Who -happens- to have been born in America, and have been given his powers by the American government, to represent America as a kind of mascot. But he has, many times, gone against the American people and American leadership when they were in the wrong.

I feel saying he's a representation of 'America' is 1. Underselling the character, and 2. Is overselling the Spirit of America.

Don't get me wrong. I'm proud to be an American and live in this country and i'm happy for all the things we do right and all the privledges and prosperity we have, but if our country has an inherently better quality to it then it's born of a set of foreward thinking values and being in the posistion to carry those values out.

Calling Cap the anthropomorphification of America or the Flag rubs some of his gloss off on America, not vice versa. There's nothing particularly magical about America. There IS something magical about Captain America.

[salinea]

I like the way you think.

[valtyr]

I can't say I'm particularly attached to the idea of Steve being symbiotic with America. (Not least because Steve has been a good man at times when America was decidedly not being a good place; when America hated mutants, I didn't see him hating mutants. He wasn't paranoid and scared during the McCarthy era.)

To me, Steve is a exceptional person, not because he does any one thing - like patriotism - better than anyone else, but because he's consistently as good as the best. If Steve can jump yay high, there's an Olympic athlete who can jump yay high. If Steve can sign up for WWII because he hates to think of innocent people getting hurt, there are real people who signed up for the same reason. If Steve throws himself on a grenade, other people have thrown themselves on grenades.

There's no individual act Steve Rogers takes that makes him such an admired and admirable person, it's his consistently choosing to be the best person he can manage (something he did before the Serum). He's not ordinary, but most of the heroic things he does have been done by ordinary people. That's what makes him both special annd human, not some waffle about having America in his molecules.

[icon_uk]

I've always viewed the Ralph Waldo Emerson quote "The hero is no braver than the ordinary man, but he is brave five minutes longer"* as being the true definition of heroism,

It's certainly what I hope I would be, if the need arose and is the consistent approach of those I personally view as heroes.

* This is clearly also applicable to women too, but I hate mangling actual quotations.

[espanolbot]

So Steve is what they've been saying that Captain Britain is for some time now? Okay then.

[wizardru]

Captain Britain has ALWAYS been linked to the land in a very literal way. From Moore's work to his being linked to King Arthur to his MI-13 version who's powers are born entirely of his own self-confidence and the will of the British people.

Captain America always, to me, represented the ideal of an American citizen. He wasn't tied to the nation, so much as represented an aspirational view of what Americans citizens idealized.

[mrstatham]

Cheekbones ahoy!!!! Good lord, can JRJr draw a woman who doesn't have that facial structure? It's almost as bad as Cho's obsession with asses.

[empyrean]

What's with the zombie-like facial structure? From the hollow cheeks to the dead staring eyes that Maria and Natasha have. Brr.

(I thought for a moment the theory would be everyone saying 'Civil War? That was Tony and Steve having a really bad break-up'). I am disappoint.

[bradygirl_12]

I've always felt that Cap was the essence of America, of its ideal, not necessarily its reality. I like this!

[darrylayo]

Captain America is the best guy because his offensive weapon is literally a defensive armor.

The best Captain America comics show him lunging head in, into opposite forces, improbably pushing off incredible danger with just a shield. It's a powerful graphic element on the page.