flint_marko: (Osiris)Flint Marko ([personal profile] flint_marko) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily,
@ 2011-08-17 09:52 pm UTC
Entry tags:char: cheshire/jade nguyen, char: deathstroke/slade wilson, char: doctor sivana, char: isis/adriana tomaz, char: jericho/joseph wilson, char: osiris/amon tomaz, char: speedy/arsenal/roy harper, creator: eric wallace, creator: travis moore, title: titans


So these are the last two issues of Titans, by Eric Wallace and Travis Moore. After the Flashpoint reboot, Ryan Choi will be alive again and Lian will apparently have never been born, so I don't know how much of this will be sticking.



Deathstroke uses the Methuselah Device to cure the dying Jericho.


Osiris asks if the machine could restore Adam as well. Slade says he doesn't know, but he thinks it's worth finding out.

Ink, Jade, and Osiris want to use the machine. Roy and Cinder don't.





Titans #38 begins with Ray Palmer meeting with Ryan Choi's girlfriend, Amanda, before his funeral. It's revealed that's she's recently given birth to their son, Ichiro.


Slade's reasoning doesn't really make any sense; it's not like his Titans were a public superhero team using the name of its heroes like the Dark Avengers.

Roy punches Slade, saying he's nothing like him and that he's realized the ideal Slade's been trying to corrupt is still important to him, which is why he'll be leading the Titans from now on. Slade kicks him and tells him to "keep your damn team, Roy. I've had enough of you all."

Cinder flies into the Methuselah Device, causing a plasma annihilation reaction with its heart. Osiris grabs Sivana and flies out. The others prepare to leave, though Deathstroke is missing.

Jade tries to stay behind, asking Roy what good is living without Lian.





Roy shakes his hand. "How about we take it one day at a time?"

Ray speaks at Ryan's funeral.



"Crazy town."

And that's it; the series is over. While it wasn't the greatest series, I'm glad Osiris never became an evil villain like I had feared. He generally remained a sympathetic character, at worst being an idiot for trusting Slade (though who knows, maybe the Methuselah device would have restored Adam?).  I just hope the Black Marvel Family will still be around post-Flashpoint.


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jaybee3: Nguyen Lil Cass (Batgirl, Cassandra Cain)


[personal profile] jaybee3
2011-08-18 04:22 am UTC (link)
The series was dreadful and it was apparent early on (so dreadful that people were giving a hard time to Didio & Co. at cons after the first issue was at). It also made no sense.

So let me count the ways on the Osiris story alone:
a) How did Osiris have the power to take away Freddy's powers? It was never explained.
b) When the heck did Osiris talk to Billy and Mary? Not only did we not see that (and given how important Billy/Mary are to the Marvel mythos and the fans of the franchise it would have given sales of the book a little lift) but during the "Shazam" one-shot this fact was never brought up. I refuse to believe that Billy/Mary would have turned away Amon (as Wonder Girl did) either especially after the way Mary was treated in Countdown/FC. Not to mention the fact that in Wallace's own Blackest Night one-shot starring Black Lantern Osiris we were clearly shown Billy and Mary concerned that Amon might have have returned.
c) Wasn't the whole point of "Trials of Shazam" was that Freddy became "Shazam" and that Captain Marvel WASN'T his name (in fact it was a name Billy chose for HIMSELF not one anyone with the power gets). James Robinson even mocked the fact that no one knew what to call Freddy anymore in Cry for Justice.
d) The Wizard Shazam is also the SOURCE for Osiris' power - or did he forget that? Isis gets her powers from a amulet but Amon gets his powers from Black Adam who got his from Shazam. But then DC itself doesn't know what its doing when it comes to the Marvel Family's powers. In JSA, Ordway & Johns (under Editorial Edict, per Ordway on the DC message boards) had the Wizard take away Billy and Mary's powers willy-nillly which is something we were told in the past he couldn't do - that's why Black Adam had to be exiled rather than killed/depowered. We were also told Freddy's powers didn't come from the Wizard at all - so how could Osiris take them away.

And after all DC has put through Roy through and him getting involved with Deathstroke and killing people with dead cats and all we have him suddenly learning the lesson of his ways in the last issue and moving on? WTF? What was the point then (yeah, yeah, I know all this is going to be retconned away starting last month but still...).

I think "Titans" is the quintessential example with what is wrong with the Didio-era DC writ small (Countdown was it writ large). Post Blackest Night which was a HUGE, HUGE success for DC (even in non-comics media), there was a huge opportunity for some of these characters.

The return of Osiris in Blackest Night should by all rights be used to right the ship on the Captain Marvel/Shazam franchise (the fact that Freddy was dismissed so easily is very telling that DC knew that Winick's Freddy/Shazam idea was dead in the water) by having Billy/Mary/Freddy helping Amon find the Wizard to restore Isis (and Black Adam). I would have bought the heck of that book. But no, the put him here and turn him into a killer (where all he wanted to be was a hero) and a lackey to Deathstroke where he was routinely insulted and mocked by his "teammates" even though as someone with the power of Shazam Osiris is one of the most powerful beings on the planet and could kill them all very easily. Another plot point dropped was that of Black Adam's dead brother-in-law (and then wife) coming back to life. Considering how Black Adam literally started a World War because of their killings and considering that several (real) nation such as China authorized Isis' assassination (something August General in Iron admitted in 52) their return should have put the world (and every hero) on alert but no....like I said a wasted opportunity (and Wallace even said that Marvel Fans should read this crap book to find out the next developments in the Marvel Family story - except without any actual Marvels in it).

I'm not even going to go into how Roy was used and abused and Lian killed off seemingly for no other reason than this piece of junk. It would have made more sense if there was to be a follow-up to the detested CforJ or Rise of Arsenal to make Titans the Roy Harper book with him getting together a group of disenfranchised former Titans members to go all Outsiders on crime, instead of making it a villain book starring: "Deathrstroke & His Unlikeable Lackeys".

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flint_marko: (Mini Marvels Sandman)


[personal profile] flint_marko
2011-08-18 04:33 am UTC (link)
Do you have a link to Ordway's comments?

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jaybee3: Nguyen Lil Cass (Batgirl, Cassandra Cain)


[personal profile] jaybee3
2011-08-18 04:57 am UTC (link)
I don't know if they still exist there but he was commenting at the DC message boards (on a thread in the Shazam section) about his and Geoff Johns' 3-issue JSA arc (where we got Black Mary again in her FC costume, the Wizard came back to life, Black Adam and Isis were turned into statues and B/M were depowered) shortly after they came out which was a few years ago now.

He said that originally it was planned that Freddy was to be included (as was Uncle Dudley), the Wizard maybe was going to stay dead and that it was basically to re-set the status Shazam quo to pre-Infinite Crisis (where all 3 kids were Marvels) but last minute Editorial changes/dicates (coming I assume from Didio himself since by all accounts he has been personally responsible for all the Marvel Family darkening like the Dead Wizard, Black Mary and greenlighting Winick's Trials of Shazam over Johns & Alex Ross's more traditional With One Magic Word...Shazam pitch) changed everything. The Wizard came back to life, Billy and Mary were de-powered and they left it there. Ordway said they were constantly changing both the art and the story to the very last minute (but that he was happy with how it turned out given the time constraints).

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[personal profile] jlbarnett
2011-08-18 10:22 pm UTC (link)
has anyone ever asked Didio what his issue with Captain Marvel is?

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jaybee3: Nguyen Lil Cass (Batgirl, Cassandra Cain)


[personal profile] jaybee3
2011-08-19 05:06 pm UTC (link)
People have asked him about it (what the heck are they doing to the Marvel Family and such) and he usually gives the same canned response he gives to every other unused character. Despite the fact he's pretty much wrecked the Shazam franchise (and made Mary Marvel basically radioactive) I don't get the feeling Didio has anything "personal" against the Marvel Family. He never cracks jokes or mocks their fans the way he does when someone asks about Cassandra Cain or more recently Wally West. Greg Rucka said that Didio was opposed to killing off Isis and Osiris in "52" despite the fact that both character were created for the sole purpose of being killed off (and what do you know - both have since returned to life)!

I go back several years ago when Didio publicly said he felt the Marvel Family "sensibility" didn't fit into the modern DCU (i.e. Didio's own dark, grim post-Identity Crisis DCU) and I think a lot of the decisions he has made regarding them in order to make them darker and not as fun (in other words - more like Black Adam, who Didio/Johns/etc. love) and he simply doesn't realize that you can't do that to these characters without fundamentally ruining them.

Hopefully they've learned their lessons for the DCnU. If there's one franchise that could actually benefit from this reboot it's the Shazam one.

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flint_marko: (Mini Marvels Sandman)


[personal profile] flint_marko
2011-08-19 05:14 pm UTC (link)
What did he say about Wally?

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jaybee3: Nguyen Lil Cass (Batgirl, Cassandra Cain)


[personal profile] jaybee3
2011-08-19 05:41 pm UTC (link)
I can't remember anything specific off the top of my head but if you go back to some CBR/Newsarama articles (pre-DCnU announcement) whenever Wally West's name came up at conventions Didio (or one of the other editors) would crack a joke instead of actually answering the question (one response was - and I quote - "at least we didn't kill him").

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thepinkperil: (pic#386419)

..


[personal profile] thepinkperil
2011-08-19 06:20 pm UTC (link)
As much as I am loathe to say it, Didio isn't the one with the problem. It's TPTB. Rumors have circulated for years the higher ups at Warner actively dislike the Marvels and many other light-hearted aspects of the DCU. It makes for more drama if the goody-goodies get all full of angst and darkness.

You know, the target demographic can't relate to happy characters. So they shove the fun to the Johnny DC line and let it die there. At least Tiny Titans has survived, knock on wood.

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