Morrison and Morales are golden gods

[arbre_rieur]

Four pages from ACTION COMICS 1 (heh, feels weird to say that)...

The first page of the issue:



This Glenmorgan guy is described by the cops as "Mr. Metropolis," very, very rich and powerful. The police arrive to rescue him from Superman.





With Lex Luthor's help, the authorities manage to lure Superman into a trap.

Comments

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

So Superman is a fascist now.

Guess that's why there's no Authority in the DCU. It'd be redundant.

[kirke_novak]

I'm sure fascism doesn't work that way. Socialism, maybe, but not fascism.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Well, the modern defination of fascists, those that think the laws don't apply to them. That fits Superman to a T, at the moment.

[shadowpsykie]

ummm.... that could also discribe a vigilante..... are vigilantes fascist?

[salinea]

Well, the modern defination of fascists
you mean the one, which is already outdated by now, where it's generic, extremely vague insult wagered against anyone you don't like, politically?

[fifthie]

No that's really not at all the definition of fascist, "modern" or otherwise.

As soon as Superman begins advocating reactionary, racist nationalism backed by an authoritarian government, then it will be appropriate to refer to him as fascist.

[terabient]

Fascists aren't people who think laws don't apply to them. I've only heard the term used in politics and to describe people who are extremely intolerant of other groups or ideas.

This kind of behavior isn't fascist. Problematic and morally questionable? Hells yes. Fascist? Not really.

[vitruvian23]

That's not a definition of fascism, except by those who have no idea what the word means. Fascism involves an autocratic or dictatorial government invading other spheres such as industry or private life, so when Superman asserts his individual sense of right or wrong over 'the system', if anything he's being the polar opposite of a fascist. You might describe him as an anarchist, or to the extent that he's actually expressing the will of the little man, perhaps a populist. But fascist? No.

[junipepper]

I'm puzzled by your 'modern definition of fascism.' Where are you getting this from? As far as I know, fascists are, and have always been, organized groups a with radical agenda that's big on collective identity, and opposed to things like civil rights and civil liberties. It's about totalitarian government.

Superman is acting as a vigilante, and that's really not new.

[wizardru]

Words have meanings. Just because some pundit on TV misuses the terms socialist and fascist does not mean it suddenly gets a new definition...especially when that definition is 'someone I disagree with politically'.

A fascist is someone who is a radical authoritarian who seeks the formation of a single-party state often using indoctrination and racial politics. Superman fighting corrupt capitalists does not equal fascism.

[golden_orange]

Even in these modern times, there is a lot more to the concept of 'fascism' than just 'someone who thinks themselves above the law'.

And frankly, aside from the 'law' part there doesn't seem to be much of that reflected in this version of Superman.

You're the 2nd person I've seen call the new Supes "fascist"

[philippos42]

That's not what "fascist" means at all. Fascism is authoritarian, and in fact the name is specifically meant to invoke the fasces carried by ancient Roman lictors, who were marked by their adherence to the law.

You don't get to redefine words to mean what you want. Fascism is generally nationalistic, conservative of privilege, and authoritarian. It may also use revolutionary language, cult of personality, and/or a kleptocracy, but those in themselves are not fascist markers.

Supes here might have revolutionary language & cult of personality. Nationalism or the lack thereof is not clearly indicated. But he is quite the opposite of "conservative of privilege, and authoritarian."

You know what we call people who misappropriate the term fascist and throw it around at anyone they don't like? Lyndon LaRouche.

[junipepper]

Socialism is an economic system. Like capitalism. It's not applicable to Superman.

[darkknightjrk]

"So Superman is a fascist now."

I don't think Clark's thinking like that--he's a young, radical idealist with powers beyond that of normal man. He's just naive enough to think that doing what he's doing can create permanent, long-lasting change. I'm sure the whole arc of the story will be Clark getting his ass handed back to him for it, and him learning how to better use his power.

[drexer]

He was always a fascist if that's your interpertation of it.

You're just drawing the lines between the petty crimes he could saw and act and the grand crimes he now sees and acts upon.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

He's acting outside the law, using excessive force and making liberal use of death threats and torture (him jumping off the building).

Sorry, that hasn't 'Always been Superman'. And just because that's how he started out, doesn't mean that's how Superman should be now.

[shadowpsykie]

OH! interesting thing, we had a brief discussion in my graphic novel class... the teacher saying that, Superman CAN be a fascist character, in the sense that He has all the power. If it wasn't for the fact that he uses it for good, he COULD be a fascist.

Kirke_Novak is right though, its more socialism in its purer form than fascism. and superman originally did start off as a socialistic hero, fighting for the little guy. (we are disussing the golden age tomorrow in class:)

the authority... i think they were more fascist/totalitarian/insane...

anyways. i don't mind him starting off fighting for the little guy.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

He's not doing 'The Little Guy' any favors by breaking and undermining the law, the only thing that can protect them.

[drexer]

Have you ever read 'It's a Bird' by Steven Seagal? It touches upon that concept a bit and it's quite an interesting bit to read and think about.

[fifthie]

the teacher saying that, Superman CAN be a fascist character, in the sense that He has all the power. If it wasn't for the fact that he uses it for good, he COULD be a fascist.

This is half a tautology and half a non sequitur. Anyone can be a fascist if they, you know, are a fascist. The Nazis managed to do it without any superpowers at all.

I guess for values of "fascism" that equal "authoritarian" Superman could install himself as the head of a one-man government policing all people under his rule, although that seems like it would be a hassle even for him, and most versions of the character haven't shown anything like the propensity for large-scale organization like you'd need to perpetuate a totalitarian state over the long run. Superman's tended to be too much of a hands-on sort of dude to make much of any kind of government leader, really.

[vitruvian23]

Well, at this point he doesn't have all the power, in that his powers are more limited, so he really can't be considered fascist in this story, even if he were trying to impose his will on society in general as opposed to what he thinks of as a few bad eggs.

Not really socialist, either, since he doesn't seem to be espousing any particular economic theory other than the law treating rich and poor alike, which is merely democratic. Populist seems a better label.

[crabby_lioness]

You have a strange definition of fascism.

I'm reminded of when the female Doctor Fate was hauled before a Senate Subcommittee to answer for her actions (saving lives and improving her run-down neighborhood).

"Aren't you ashamed of what you've done?"

"Yes I am. I'm ashamed I haven't done more!"

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

He attacked someone without provication or tactical need.

That's assault and battery, and breaking and entering.

He then dropped a man off a building and threatened to do it again, to get a confession.

That's torture. Something that was rightly frowned upon, hotly debated and then done away with, when it was made 'legal' by the last President.

I think my defination is just fine. Superman acts like might makes right.

[aaron_bourque]

OH, look! Someone who doesn't understand fascism is calling any superhero a fascist!

What is this, Watchmen?

[hyperactivator]

No he's not. Please don't use words without knowing what they mean. The definition of words can change with misuse but that doesn't mean that they should.