brooms: (goddess)
anna ([personal profile] brooms) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily2011-10-04 02:45 pm

WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN??

Tom Brevoort has a Formspring and he's actually pretty good at answering questions.

In his most recent batch of replies, he tackled things like the recent CATWOMAN/STARFIRE controversy and why Gambit isn't invited to more poker games.

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abriel: (Default)

[personal profile] abriel 2011-10-04 06:48 pm (UTC)(link)
"Marvel does a better job of avoiding it..."? What Marvel books has that person read? What about Dark Avengers where Moonstone was being passed around by all the guys on the team? What about how Tigra was treated much, much earlier in West Coast Avengers? And what about Emma Frost and her various clothes (and lack of) throughout the years?
crabby_lioness: (Default)

[personal profile] crabby_lioness 2011-10-04 07:44 pm (UTC)(link)
No Avengers title is good for women.

'Nuff said.
abriel: (Default)

[personal profile] abriel 2011-10-04 07:48 pm (UTC)(link)
Aw now, I wouldn't go that far. I mean the Avengers books have been pretty good to women so far. Just look at what they've done with one of the founding members the Wasp...

...

Well, not the best example. Well, there's Ms. Marvel! They never screwed her over! Well, except for that time she was raped....

......

Well, what about Scarlet...Witch...




I'm just gonna go sulk in my corner now.

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[personal profile] kd_the_movie 2011-10-04 07:48 pm (UTC)(link)
I didn't find the Moonstone thing so bad because you really understood that not only does moonstone enjoy sex but she had no qualms about using sex as a manipulation tool (which is sooo in her character).

I never got the "oversexualized objectification" vibe from her.

In regards to Cammi...I was hoping she'd show up in Thanos Imperative. But Drax is dead anyway :( *im still mad about Marvel scuttling away the Post Annihilation Cosmic!Marvel*

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salinea: Magneto going *?* (wtf)

[personal profile] salinea 2011-10-04 07:59 pm (UTC)(link)
What Marvel books has that person read? What about Dark Avengers where Moonstone was being passed around by all the guys on the team?

That's not what was happening. That was Moonstone passing all the guys on her team to her. Agency: it matters.

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akodo_rokku: (Default)

[personal profile] akodo_rokku 2011-10-04 08:23 pm (UTC)(link)
To be fair, it was Moonstone passing herself around.

I mean that's not really *better*, but...

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drmcninja: (Default)

[personal profile] drmcninja 2011-10-04 09:36 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree except on Emma. She does all that on purpose. She had plastic surgery, she wears clothes like she does because she wants to look like that. She's supposed to be absurdly showy and dress too sexy. Rarely does she ever actually act like it.
salinea: Balder is unhappy (*D:*)

[personal profile] salinea 2011-10-04 07:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Cammi!!! How are you going on the cosmos alone without your pet homicidal badass guy! I worry for you.
terrykun: (Default)

[personal profile] terrykun 2011-10-04 08:04 pm (UTC)(link)
She's traveling with Thanos' former pet chaos sprite. I'd say she's set. :D

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q99: (Default)

[personal profile] q99 2011-10-04 07:49 pm (UTC)(link)
"I don't think our industry puts it's best foot forward when it comes to the depiction of women" - You can say that again :)
cyberghostface: (Spidey & MJ)

[personal profile] cyberghostface 2011-10-04 08:27 pm (UTC)(link)
But it's alright for Spider-Man to have done...well, pretty much everything after OMD, Tom? (I was going to make a list, but then I realized that would take too long)
drmcninja: (Default)

[personal profile] drmcninja 2011-10-04 09:37 pm (UTC)(link)
It was a DC focused question and Spider Man was not mentioned at all. I am not exactly sure where you are coming from with this.

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filthysize: (Default)

[personal profile] filthysize 2011-10-04 09:17 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm gonna be honest, here, the whole thing about a popular Teen Titans cartoon with a non-sexualized depiction of Starfire being an argument as to why it's so awful to sexualize her (like the one Shortpacked and that Gawker article made) strikes me as rather baffling. Other arguments may have merit, but I just can't understand that one. Why should DC be in any way obligated to align their books accordingly to pacify the audience of a family-friendly spin-off media? It's not like they took an innocent character from a kids show and sexed her up; it's the other way around.

It's irrelevant to Red Hood and the Outlaws how popular Teen Titans! is, and saying that there's a potential fanbase being left out (kids) isn't even a good argument for why it should go after those audience figures--isn't that the exact same excuse hacks use when they tone down their originally R-rated movies to PG-13? No, I'm not saying Red Hood is automatically a better book when it has sexy, violent content (I'm not interested in Lobdell's take on these characters either way), but if that's the type of book it wants to be and they want to attract an older audience for a book about mercenaries, I don't see why abandoning the Teen Titans! fans is being made into such a fuss.
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2011-10-04 09:30 pm (UTC)(link)
It's irrelevant to Red Hood and the Outlaws how popular Teen Titans! is

"is" yes, "was", less so I'd say. One of the points of this reboot is to lure new readers into comics, those who grew up with the Teen Titans cartoon which ended five years ago, (and any episode of which pulled in many many times more viewers than any Titans comic has had readers in many a decade) would only have the cartoon as a frame of reference.
meowshi: (Default)

[personal profile] meowshi 2011-10-04 09:41 pm (UTC)(link)
I sort of agree. Teen Titans ended in 2006! I know a lot of people are nostalgic about that cartoon, but people should not be upset that they decided to take the character in another, less familiar direction? It would be boring if she was exactly like her cartoon-counterpart, especially since the cartoon hasn't been relevant in 5 years!

The characterization was shitty, but not because it "wasn't like the cartoon I grew up with."
salinea: (Default)

[personal profile] salinea 2011-10-04 09:43 pm (UTC)(link)
I think one of the reason this is annoying is that other characters were changed and people claim the reason is to make them more coherent with their cartoons / movies version. Babs as Batgirl would be the most visible example of this. But apparently this justification only works as a one way street - to make characters whiter, sexier, slimmer, and less disabled.

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drmcninja: (Default)

[personal profile] drmcninja 2011-10-04 09:44 pm (UTC)(link)
For me personally, its not anger so much as confusion when using the show as an argument. Why would you throw away a character (from the show) that brought in way more eyes to the character than any comic book possibly could, and change her in a way that scares away all of those prospective readers from the book, and possibly the DCnU? Anyone who wants to get into comics and has seen that show looks, sees starfire, sees the change, isn't interested. I think Shortpacked was extremely accurate on that front.

For other people, I don't think anybody thinks they are obligated to keep her the same. I think its rage that the cartoon Kory (who is arguably the happiest and most bubbly) was a believable variation on the character. To take that (what could have been) and make her this new person, is a couple lunges in the wrong direction.

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richardak: (Default)

[personal profile] richardak 2011-10-04 09:44 pm (UTC)(link)
The argument that Willis made in "Shortpacked!" was that it was a bad business decision, since they were alienating a large potential customer base. But I agree with you that this argument is tendentious: there is little evidence for the proposition that DC could have attracted a significant proportion of the cartoon's fan-base, and, in any case, the demographic group that is the current primary customer base of most comics, and the demographic group to which that issue of Red Hood was clearly trying to appeal, males aged 18-35, is the most desirable demographic from the perspective of advertisers. Since all periodicals rely on ads for a significant chunk of their revenue, it would be a bad business decision for DC to deliberately seek a less desirable demo.

Speaking of targeting the right demo, if Willis really believed his own argument, and really wanted to effect change, he would have aimed his argument at TimeWarner shareholders, not comics readers.

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turtlefu: (Default)

[personal profile] turtlefu 2011-10-05 07:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Except one of the big huge things about the reboot was re-aligning their characters to fit in better with the popular media spin-offs. We saw it with Babsgirl and GreenArrow-Batman, and it was used to justify some other stuff they've done. I'm still extremely bitter about Oracle, and one of the things many people said to justify replacing Oracle; ie, Babsgirl is more familiar to non-comics readers so she'll help bring in more readers.

But the one time changing something to fit in with the spin-off would actually IMPROVE the character, they have to say "No, let's completely misinterpret Starfire as an emotionless sexbot"
thanekos: Kouhei " Principal Garren " Hayami, the Libra Zodiarts, is bugged. (Default)

[personal profile] thanekos 2011-10-04 09:33 pm (UTC)(link)
So that's why Rulk gets to sit in; he DOESN'T eat all the dip!

[personal profile] don1138 2011-10-05 03:18 am (UTC)(link)
I commented elsewhere that Marvel Disney's gradual evolution of Wolverine from psycho-berzerker to family-friendly icon has been handled gracefully over the last several years (maybe since he joined the Avengers). I have even come to approve of the way they "sexed up" Squirrel Girl (my fave femme hero) without the crassness of going full-Starfire on her.

Notwithstanding the above-cited (and non-cited) "petit-fridging" of females in Marvel and in comics in general, IMHO Marvel Disney seems to manage their properties SO much better than DC the WB marketing department does.

As an aside, does anyone else enjoy the irony that Image-style comics sprang from Marvel-style comics, and have now consumed and regurgitated DC comics?
stubbleupdate: (Default)

[personal profile] stubbleupdate 2011-10-05 06:06 am (UTC)(link)
Are you going to credit Disney's influence on the arc where Wolverine killed all of his illegitimate children?

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eyz: (Default)

[personal profile] eyz 2011-10-05 09:24 am (UTC)(link)
The part about Marvel taking the issue better or not..is disputable. Sounds more like a comment out of a Marvel fanboy. Both good and bad examples can be easily pointed out at both companies.
Naaaah, I'd say "Vertigo" maybe does a much better job than both these. (Yes! Yes, I know it's part of DC/WB, but I was speaking publishing-brand-wise)
karthzon: (Gears of War)

[personal profile] karthzon 2011-10-06 09:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Focusing on the scans (specifically scan 1 panel 1): The Kree have obviously played the Gears of War games.