Trailer for The Avengers - first "real" one

[kirke_novak]

We still don't know who the enemy is (my money on Skrulls), I don't believe it's Loki
I already ship Natasha/Loki
Steve has a gun, all is right with the world
Don't like how they just attached Hulk at the end - is he in the film for just 3 seconds?

Comments

[drmcninja]

No, you're right on that point. I was definitely getting concept and backstory confused, and I apologize for that. I think it is how their concepts are easier, not their backstories, thanks for correcting that.

But i think the part about them being half assed is where we just disagree. I would much rather them be fleshed out and given characterization in some other title and not be in the Avengers than having them dropped in half assed. The Movieverse is interconnected. If they don't show up in the Avengers, they always get the chance to show up later on somewhere else with a greater role, or where they aren't overshadowed by the large, established characters. I can guarantee you that the focus of the Avengers will be mostly on Cap, Thor, Iron Man, and even the Hulk to a degree. That means that Nat and Clint essentially become supporting characters, and what worries me is that they may get personalities to match. Hawkeye is in way more danger than Nat, just because she's already shown up. Audiences have gotten a feel for who she is personality wise, even knowing nothing about her, and that keeps it from happening too much. Hawkeye is basically a new character. And that's what I would be afraid of with Jan.

And I mean, of course it would take less time out of the movie to explain them so we could focus more on the actual plot, which is always nice.

[terra]

I guess like— with Black WIdow and Hawkeye, they were both dropped into the movieverse with very little explanation. Clint got a teensy cameo in Thor and Natasha got a larger role in IM2, but she was not herself through most of the film, she was pretending to be a deliberately boring person. I was lukewarm on Natasha in IM2! However, look, they're getting larger roles as part of this ensemble cast, and there's a definite possibility for even bigger roles going forward. There's a much better chance of getting a Black Widow or Hawkeye film if the Avengers film does well than in the absence of any Avengers film. (With Jan, admittedly, there is an Ant Man film in the works possibly.) And to the contrary, I think it's pretty likely that BW and Hawkeye will have a lot of stuff to do in the Avengers film, the same way the Avengers franchise gets to play around with Jan, Luke Cage, Vision, etc, the people who there's more freedom to work with because they don't need to preserve franchise integrity. We will just have to see.

But one thing I'm sure of is that their mere presence in the film raises awareness of their characters a whole bunch. Like I said, I was pretty lukewarm about Natasha's appearance in IM2, but I loved the Black Widow ongoing Marvel published to capitalize on it. The movie has to be really terrible for more popular exposure to be a bad thing, especially for B-list characters.

Ideally they'd do everything right, but me personally, I'd take not doing everything right but some degree of exposure over doing nothing at all. I can see why some Elektra fans might wish that movie had never come out, though. :)

[drmcninja]

Yeah, true about Natasha being somebody else. But I don't mean that they won't have anything to do. I think the trailer at least does a good job of getting them in there, and I think screen time wise theyll hold their own. But when it comes to actual character focus, they'll be left behind. I think most of the drama in-team will be between the Trinity and Banner, because they've had their own movies, have established characters, and thus its easier to work with them and write better dialogue for them.

And personally, while I like he exposure they'd be getting, I really wasn't thinking about that. I'm not too interested here in getting them new writers, just in them being treated and characterized well. Both of them, plus Jan, deserve more space than this movie can afford to give. That was my original argument, and I'll stick to that, but I can definitely see how people would take just having them there now in a lesser role than being characterized fully later elsewhere but be missing from this.

[terra]

Yeah, and my impulse is that it would go the other way. They'd hold off the Thor and Tony character work for Thor 2 and Iron Man 3, but they have a lot of free reign for Hawkeye development. That's at least, how it's always worked in the comics— sure, Thor shows up to hit things, but the big emotional beats have been stuff like the Vision/Wanda romance. But on that we're both totally speculating. My opinion will probably change around based on what actually comes of this movie. (And if they do Janet absolutely perfect in some other film!)

And really, however much I wind up liking the film (or not), I'm pretty sure the lack of diversity in the cast will always gnaw at me a bit, especially if they redo the comics lineup to match the movie better.

[drmcninja]

they kind of threw that under the bus when they went for a shakespearean drama for Thor. It look like theyre just taking a look at each character out of context and saying "What could best with this in a movie." But we know Jan'll show up in the Ant-Man movie if it makes it all the way. You can't have hank without Jan. unless she's dead, where of course she'll come back to life in the comics once that movie comes out. Which i will hate.