Teen Titans history just got less, and a lot more, complicated

[icon_uk]

From the NYCC "Young Justice" panel (as in the branch of the DCNu with teen characters, rather than the animated series)

SPOILERS under the cut... be warned!


This is the cover to issue five, showing what appears to be Bart, dressed as Tim, making fun of Kon (and apparently using a new power on him too)



Okay, calm down icon_uk, just remember that Bart is WAAAAY to young for you,

From the Newsarama coverage, which also added a rather annoying tweak to the ne w Blue Beetle set up, but that's for someone else to post about.

Teen Titans editor Bobbie Chase then came onto the stage to talk about her book, which had a cover for Issue #5 with Kid Flash running circles around Superboy and seemingly striking him with lightning.

"I hope everyone who's picking up Teen Titans is also picking up Superboy, which are very tied together," Chase said. "It's going to take until Issue #7 to firmly establish what his place is in the Teen Titans group."

Not only are these character meeting each other for the first time, Chase said, in the New 52, this is the first incarnation of Teen Titans, ever.

I think that warrants a small "ARGH!" on my part, even without knowing what that really means in terms of teases.

When a fan asked what that meant for Starfire's previous relationships, mentioned in Red Hood and the Outlaws, Chase said that those relationships did happen, but they didn't necessarily happen as Titans.

And this is where my headache gets worse. If there wasn't a Titans team, what did the team that Dick, Kory and the as yet unknown Dustin call itself? And does this mean Dick isn't the group strategist we've seen him be for decades now?.

The family aspect of the book will have to evolve over time, because the Titans are still learning to trust one another.

One fan asked if Tim Drake was still an orphan, Chase said she wouldn't answer, but said he was still part of the Bat-family, something that would be reflected upon soon.

It would never have occured to me to ask that, as I'd have assumed it was a given.

When asked about Wally West, Chase responded, "who?"

Ouch!

A fan asked who the smoky girl on the cover of the first issue was, and Chase said it was Solstice. Chase also confirmed that there were plans for both Beast Boy and Raven.

THAT was Solstice? Was it really THAT much to have a positive, glowing light based character on this eam? I mean, really? Okay.. okay... maybe it's just a different manifestation of ehr powers that she was always meant to have and which we'd have seen even if the relaunch had never happened.

 

Comments

[shadowpsykie]

THAT was Solstice? Was it really THAT much to have a positive, glowing light based character on this eam? I mean, really? Okay.. okay... maybe it's just a different manifestation of ehr powers that she was always meant to have and which we'd have seen even if the relaunch had never happened.

well look at it this way aren't there two significant Solstic's. the Summer Solstice, which most people associate with summer and the sun, and the Winter Solstice which people associate with winter and the moon.

also i remember Lobdell saying somehting about the coloring... he wanted it one color, but was told her couldn't have that... the other thing was, didn't he say that some characters weren't being showed in their final looks?

[thefiretonight]

Possibly two different powers as well? Because she was pretty bright in that panel in TT #1.

[drexer]

"When asked about Wally West, Chase responded, "who?""

Oh well, that seems cruel but might just be related to simple ignorance; still if that was the worst that was said there, there's not much problem.

*follows the link*

"The armor is technically an illegal alien -- everything was fine with his family till that came along," Bedard said. "That was a terrible, terrible joke, I know."

... really? REALLY?!

Oh well, I stand corrected. And facepalming.

[icon_uk]

As Tony Bedard is Puerto Rican, he might have more leeway with making jokes like that, even bad ones.

I really like this

[blue_bolt]

I know everyone seems worried but here's the thing: you'd actually have to try to make the Titans worse than they were by the 2000's. Seriously, between the tentacle squid scene (that was not subtext, it was tentacle porn) and Titans dying every other Tuesday (actually a read a Titan died once every nine months so that's still extreme) it would be hard to equal that level of grimdark wannabe.

Remember how Donna Troy had a more confusing history than PG? Heck, she died three times and was a composite version of herself from every reality and then she was brought back but only as Wally West remembered her! And Beast Boy-Raven, one my favourite ships but the writers keep bloody trying to sink it. So I actually look forward to this, because it's going to take them a decade to get into the kind of editorially driven down spiral that the previous TT did.

Re: I really like this

[icon_uk]

Fair point, though given the Marvel levels of public hostility towards heroes, and general alien-xenophobia too, that the DCNu is shoving down our throats at every turn, I wouldn't be sure that this will be any less grimdark than the previous version.

Re: I really like this

[shadowpsykie]

am i the only one who liked Geoff's titans?

Re: I really like this

[icon_uk]

Oh, and I'd also add in that it's not the loss of the 1990/2000's Titans that's bothering me (I skipped over most of those) but also the lost of the 1960's goofiness and the 1980's awesomeness.

Re: I really like this

[philippos42]

Donna's confusing backstory was largely due to repeated Wonder Woman retcons and Crisis Crossovers. A new retcon makes everyone's status confusing.

I remember when DC did the haphazard line-wide retcon before, in the late 1980's. They managed to do some good work in the post-Crisis period, despite Marv Wolfman wanting to blow everything up.

a) They brought people like Mike Gold, John Ostrander, and Mike Baron over from First Comics, which helped the quality of the work I think.
b) In the end, the successful series mostly decided to use the appearance of history rather than starting over. The superheroes were older and more grown-up. (Ostrander's Hawkworld and Pérez's Wonder Woman went the de-age and reboot route and were not as commercially successful.)

This time around, we're getting retreads of 1990's Marvel. It would be as if DC's big plans in 1986 involved lots of Marv Wolfman, John Byrne, and a new "DC Explosion" salted heavily with EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG. Which, when it came to the Superman books, was in fact the case back then, but this time...

Well, the stuff that DC thinks will succeed and what actually succeeds may be different things.

I can't believe I forgot to say this!

[blue_bolt]

Bart dressed as Drake hitting (on) Kon?
Slash COSPLAY!

Wow guys, so does Bart dress up as Cassie as well or is that Drake's job?

OT4some: Kon-Cass-Bart-Drake❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤
❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤

Re: I can't believe I forgot to say this!

[blue_bolt]

Always so where is that lightning hitting? NIPPLES! SUPERNIPPLES!

Bart, electrical tit torture is your kink? Cool.

P.S: Just so you know Bart's fetish (or maybe Kon's) has it's own wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_torture

[thefiretonight]

I was really surprised about Solstice but I'm excited about her coming back.

Also, I would personally like it if Tim's family [well, Jack and Dana] were still alive as their deaths were horribly unnecessary and they were a part of what set Tim away from other Robins.

[icon_uk]

I would be happy if we got Jack and Dana back too!

[nezchan]

My first thought looking at that cover:

POW! RIGHT IN THE NIPPLES!

As to Blue Beetle, cheesy jokes aside I like the idea of the relationship between Jaime and Khaji Da, that's got potential. Not having so many people know who he is, I'm not so fond of. As we all know, what makes Jaime awesome is the love, respect and support he gets for what he does from those closest to him. It's a character who's about family, why can't we have that?

[ruhig_knight]

...Oookay. I thought Lobdell said all the NTT stuff did happen, which I guess it did but they weren't the Teen Titans while doing it...but..oh forget it. He also hinted that Solstice would be appearing soon but, wow she's the Charcoal Girl. I miss her cute pre-reboot look. And damn, Bart wearing a more Flash-like costume makes the "Who's Wally?" remark even more colder.

I had a feeling Raven and Beast Boy would survive the reboot. Now I'm dreading even more about them appearing considering how...uncreative DC's been with them in the past and all the other reboot crap (ex fellow Titan Starifre). In all honestly, I'm also very sick of them as a couple; I don't care even if the pairing is handeled better and more interesting in the DCnU, I'm sorry. So please, do something new with the characters that don't involve romantic woes or character derailment. Especially Raven; for about a decade if she wasn't angsting about something Trigon-related, it was something about Beast Boy.

I don't know what to expect aboutthe status of Jericho and some of the other "lesser" Titans DC enjoys shafting and also Terra and her impact on the team.

[icon_uk]

Bart wearing a more Flash-like costume

Looks much more like a Robin costume to me.

[an_idol_mind]

See, this is where the DC Reboot loses me. They want to make their comics more accessible - fine. But they also aren't bothering to try to explain the new status quo. So some things are still in continuity and some things are not, but DC isn't telling anybody outside of this snickering riddle-speak they give at conventions.

As somebody who could be convinced to buy more DC comics, it's annoying. Their refusal to actually say what's what has basically caused me to tune out most of the reboot, and we're not even two full months through it yet.

[darkknightjrk]

"See, this is where the DC Reboot loses me. They want to make their comics more accessible - fine. But they also aren't bothering to try to explain the new status quo."

But they are explaining the status quo, they're just not being forward on how things got there--and if they go too far in that, then they stop being accessible.

It's really a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" thing, but I think they're doing pretty damn well at explaining what needs to be told to understand the stories that are moving forward right now.

[darkknightjrk]

"And this is where my headache gets worse. If there wasn't a Titans team, what did the team that Dick, Kory and the as yet unknown Dustin call itself? And does this mean Dick isn't the group strategist we've seen him be for decades now?."

What do you call your group of friends? Exactly.

[kenn_el]

I call my friends Titans. You don't? Seriously, though, did anyone think NTT would remain in continuity when a non-Cyborged Victor showed up in JL#1?

*headdesk*

[curlyjo1]

Reading the Legion Lost scans earlier, I was feeling some regrets about dropping all of DC since the reboot.

Now, I'm feeling better about it.

[domino_blue]

I just wish DC didn't feel the need to alienate the old fans. Look I know they want the new reader but it's also not good when you feel the need to change the origin every few months, plus a lot of the stuff you're getting rid off? Comic classics. Many writers and artists have done better jobs on these books then you realize and getting rid of those stories so you can retread them is not good comics. I came into comics through reprints, and so many were good, YJ(PD series), JLA(GM and MW run), Wonder Woman(Rucka), Superman(All star and Joe Casey), Nightwind(Chuck Dixon) and many more. I know people say good comics are hard to find but dammit you have reprints of good stuff out there. Why not keep all the good stories and just forget about the bad ones and make that into a continuity?

[starwolf_oakley]

One fan asked if Tim Drake was still an orphan, Chase said she wouldn't answer, but said he was ,still part of the Bat-family, something that would be reflected upon soon.

It is looking more and more that IDENTITY CRISIS isn't in continuity, or at least not as it exactly happened. I have a lot of problems with that series (as I've said in the past), but Jean Loring knowing that Tim Drake was Robin (and that Jack Drake also knew) was a huge issue for me.

Tim and Kon having never been friends in this new history is sad, really.

[arxh]

not to mention Ted and Booster

[lieut_kettch]

When a fan asked what that meant for Starfire's previous relationships, mentioned in Red Hood and the Outlaws, Chase said that those relationships did happen, but they didn't necessarily happen as Titans.

Except that in the first issue of Batwoman, Bette Kane mentions having faced Deathstroke specifically as a Titan.

[icon_uk]

Perhaps Dick and the others formed "The Titans" when they were in their late teens and this is Tim forming a new younger set "The TEEN Titans".

Blue Lantern ring charged to 140%!

[lieut_kettch]

Looking at Kon, I'm torn as to whether he's yelling, "THUNDAAAH BUREAKUUU!" or, "BURESTO FIYAAAAAAA!"

[eyz]

I'm still waiting for the continuity to revert back.
You know it will happen, once a continuity geek like Geoff Johns (or some other) become DC's new EIC after Dan Didio very long run (with Jim Lee now!)

[icon_uk]

Can't really see that happening, and certainly not with Geoff Johns, who has made this new DCU so much his own.

[fifthie]

It would never have occured to me to ask that, as I'd have assumed it was a given.

I hope it turns out that has been undone since it would be a great reversal of a terrible development for the character.

Of course if the DCNu is about anything it's about not reversing terrible character developments so probably not.

I refuse to believe Wally West will just cease to be a part of bsically anything

[detective_deathman08]

a lot of people still think of him as there flash and although I prefer barry you don't erase a charachter who has been doing it that long. In my baseless opion considering this all started as a part of a flash event, maybe wally was a charachter left untouched by flashpoint. Zoom was not changed because of his powers, and Wally is still technically the most powerful speedster.

It would be intense to have an old dc charachter pop into new dc with the intention to change shit back.

Re: I refuse to believe Wally West will just cease to be a part of bsically anything

[junipepper]

Wally being closely tied to never-happened Titans and never-happened JLA, I'm not getting my hopes up. I want him back, very much, but I don't see it happening. And I'd be delighted to be proven wrong.

[eyz]

Between the retcons here and the ones in Red Hood & Outlaws.... this DCnU is getting waaaay more complicated than Donna Troy's history already :P