Amazing Spider-Man #673

[flint_marko]

Peter goes after Strange, demanding to know how Carlie could have uncovered his identity after his spell.



The thing he has to do is give MJ the antidote, since she still has her spider-powers.

Also, Kaine is now scarless, and from the looks of it I'm guessing he's going to be the new Scarlet Spider. I liked what they did with Kaine when they brought him back (before 'killing' him off), but I'm not too crazy about prettifying him and making him some sort of superhero. And why tease the possibility of bringing Ben back?

And Julia Carpenter, the new Madame Web (I still don't understand why they had to kill off the old one and make her the new one) apologizes to Peter about the loss that's to come.

Comments

[kevinroc]

I've always been fairly indifferent to Carlie because I didn't view her as important. Too new and too unpopular. So I didn't see a need to get attached or angry when we saw her. Just a kind of sigh.

All that being said, she had every right in the world to call Peter out on this. He deserved that. It's hard to see her not returning at some point because she knows but the question remains on what do you do? She can't be a love interest anymore.

Also, I'm glad the psychic blindspot is gone. That thing was way too convoluted.

[icon_uk]

she had every right in the world to call Peter out on this

Did she? Yes, he kept something from her, something important, but his reason for doing so was the usual, and fairly justifiable, one of superhero secret identities. He didn't do it to hurt her, or to spite her, but to try and keep her safer than she might well be if she knew. He certainly didn't do it to make his life easier.

I'd say it was comparable to certain real life examples like secret agents not being able to tell their family what they do for a living.

[kevinroc]

Mary Jane told Peter earlier in Slott's run to come forward with Carlie.

What really upsets her is she's just called him out as Spidey and he is still lying to her face. She has major trust issues and from her perspective, the entire relationship was a lie. And he's insulting her and her intelligence by standing there and denying it.

And if he really cared about her, he would have chased after her instead of going to Dr. Strange and saying "What the hell, man?!"

(Again, the reason I never cared about Carlie was because it was clear from the beginning that she wasn't important. Just a distraction to create this eventual drama.)

[icon_uk]

Mary Jane told Peter earlier in Slott's run to come forward with Carlie.

But it's not MJ's call to make.

[kevinroc]

True. But MJ is the only one who understood what Carlie's situation actually was. And I suspect we'll soon see MJ meeting up with Carlie.

[tsunamiwombat]

Oh god they're going to use MJ to convince her to go back to Peter FUUUUUUUU

[kevinroc]

Eh... I think they might be done as a couple for good.

There were a lot of problems with the Peter/Carlie relationship. Not just the reader perception of it.

On paper (not being punny with that), they would seem like a good match. They're both smart, driven people who try to do the right thing.

But in practice, things seemed off. It's more like we were told how good they would be rather than seeing how good they would be. Carlie has major trust issues and Peter has a hard time opening up. Their chemistry seemed off.

Dan Slott knows how to write good chemistry between characters. Look at the way he writes Peter and MJ. But the Peter/Carlie thing was just... off...

[icon_uk]

Also, it could be he's trying to reinforce the "don't remember" spell, which will actively cause anyone who is putting the truth together to prefer an option which means he's NOT Spider-Man, so she'd be more liable to believe a half-baked prevarication (since he had not, as far as he was aware at the time, broken the terms of the spell) than the actual truth. If the spell was in effect his excuse might well have worked.

[fifthie]

It would be more justifiable if being hugely judgmental of everybody all the fucking time weren't Carlie's default reaction to everything.

[nyadnar17]

Why would he tell her that? They have been dating for less than 6 months? A year? I don't think its smart to share a bank account with someone you are only dating, much less your secret ID.

[kevinroc]

Because she is yelling in his face that he is Spider-Man and he is still lying to her. Making excuses and not caring when she says she's leaving.

[mrstatham]

No, he admits it eventually. She doesn't give him chance to explain himself once he admits it, nor does she even have the remotest understanding of WHY he wouldn't want her to be involved in that part of his life. She just gets hysterical and starts making rather ridiculous assumptions about him and his life.

Mod Note

[salinea]

Could you avoid using words with a history of sexism like "hysterical" when criticising a female character, please.

Re: Mod Note

[mrstatham]

If I'd known the word had those kinds of connotations, I wouldn't have used it. Apologies.

Re: Mod Note

[salinea]

Appreciated.

Re: Mod Note

[kusonaga]

Genuine question here, but what would be an acceptable synonym? I have a hard time coming up with something that could not be construed as sexist.

Re: Mod Note

[salinea]

As a bottom rule, if you have trouble thinking of anyway to say something without sounding sexist, then it's probably a clue that what you want to say is sexist, and then it's probably best left unsaid.

In this instance, the biggest problem is that "women are irrational and emotionally unstable creatures who overreact without grounds to what men do and say" is one of the big, on going idea that is used to undermine women; and "hysterical" is exactly the sort of word that has been used to do so (connecting irrationality and emotional instability to having a female body, pretty literally).

"Melodramatic" as used by shadowpsykie, "hyperbolic", or "outrageous" while playing into the same stereotype have the benefit of not being semantically gendered.

Re: Mod Note

[kusonaga]

Well, I don't see 'hysterical' as particularly sexist in this case, as Carlie is acting rather intensely - but as a male I sometimes overlook the subtext in these words.

I'd be more inclined to consider 'melodramatic' sexist, especially considering the genre of fifties women's films that so defined that particular image (although I think 'melodramatic' is actually more appropriate here, as that is how she's acting). But I would say 'hyperbolic' or 'outrageous' come close, but don't quite cover the definition of 'hysterical'.

And I don't know... sometimes my thoughts on these things are a little unclear. But it seems to me, if we take in account all the words that men have used to demean or undermine women and how much they are apart of our daily vocabulary, it leaves a very limited field of words (in basic vocabulary that is, of course there's a lot of synonyms, but also I'm not a native speaker).

Re: Mod Note

[salinea]

Again, if there is no way to say something without it being problematic, then it's probably best left unsaid (at least on scans_daily). We are not going to allow words we view as problematic to be used simply because you can't think of any other way to say it. Yes, it is tougher on non native speakers - I am one myself, so it's not like I don't sympathize - but we're also indulgent in terms of sanctions (in case of truely harmful vocabulary, not "mod note" material like "hysterical") if we have good reason to think you don't know better because of lack of language savviness.

Re: Mod Note

[kenwyn89]

Whilst I understand the reasons, I don't see hysterical as a particularly gendered word anymore as I frequently use it in the context of humour- and I see it as applicable to both men and women in heightened emotional states.

However, I respect the ethos of the community and will avoid using it- but I think it a little unnecessary as more people using the correct terminology (because it wasn't a gendered word in the first place) can disassociate connotations.

Re: Mod Note

[fifthie]

Judgmental and histrionic?

Histrionic might have some sort of sexist connotation i'm not aware of maybe.

Judgmental's rock-solid though!

[kevinroc]

You are putting me in a position to defend a character I do not actually care about. She's not a love interest created by Lee/Ditko/Romita (like Gwen and MJ) and she also isn't very popular (like Felicia was)

But notice that the first thing he says after he admits it is "How did you figure it out?" He's more concerned with his secret instead of actually feeling anything for her. It makes him come across pretty badly.

Because he asked that question, she went into a train of thought that made her question EVERYTHING they had done together.

[starwolf_oakley]

But notice that the first thing he says after he admits it is "How did you figure it out?" He's more concerned with his secret instead of actually feeling anything for her. It makes him come across pretty badly.

There's precedent. After Mary Jane said she knew (an issue or two later) Peter thought to himself: "How do I convince Mary Jane she's wrong about me being Spider-Man?"

[kevinroc]

He never knows how to handle it when somebody tells him that they know he's Spider-Man.

[starwolf_oakley]

Peter simply doesn't know the "right way" to react when someone tells him they figured out the Big Secret. But it's usually something like this:

"Peter Parker, I know you're Spider-Man."
"Um. No, I'm not."
"...My mistake."

The most mature way Peter handled it was in Brian Bendis' PULSE series, when Ben Urich revealed he knew Peter was Spider-Man.