Amazing Spider-Man #673

[flint_marko]

Peter goes after Strange, demanding to know how Carlie could have uncovered his identity after his spell.



The thing he has to do is give MJ the antidote, since she still has her spider-powers.

Also, Kaine is now scarless, and from the looks of it I'm guessing he's going to be the new Scarlet Spider. I liked what they did with Kaine when they brought him back (before 'killing' him off), but I'm not too crazy about prettifying him and making him some sort of superhero. And why tease the possibility of bringing Ben back?

And Julia Carpenter, the new Madame Web (I still don't understand why they had to kill off the old one and make her the new one) apologizes to Peter about the loss that's to come.

Comments

[nyadnar17]

Why would he tell her that? They have been dating for less than 6 months? A year? I don't think its smart to share a bank account with someone you are only dating, much less your secret ID.

[kevinroc]

Because she is yelling in his face that he is Spider-Man and he is still lying to her. Making excuses and not caring when she says she's leaving.

[mrstatham]

No, he admits it eventually. She doesn't give him chance to explain himself once he admits it, nor does she even have the remotest understanding of WHY he wouldn't want her to be involved in that part of his life. She just gets hysterical and starts making rather ridiculous assumptions about him and his life.

Mod Note

[salinea]

Could you avoid using words with a history of sexism like "hysterical" when criticising a female character, please.

Re: Mod Note

[mrstatham]

If I'd known the word had those kinds of connotations, I wouldn't have used it. Apologies.

Re: Mod Note

[salinea]

Appreciated.

Re: Mod Note

[kusonaga]

Genuine question here, but what would be an acceptable synonym? I have a hard time coming up with something that could not be construed as sexist.

Re: Mod Note

[salinea]

As a bottom rule, if you have trouble thinking of anyway to say something without sounding sexist, then it's probably a clue that what you want to say is sexist, and then it's probably best left unsaid.

In this instance, the biggest problem is that "women are irrational and emotionally unstable creatures who overreact without grounds to what men do and say" is one of the big, on going idea that is used to undermine women; and "hysterical" is exactly the sort of word that has been used to do so (connecting irrationality and emotional instability to having a female body, pretty literally).

"Melodramatic" as used by shadowpsykie, "hyperbolic", or "outrageous" while playing into the same stereotype have the benefit of not being semantically gendered.

Re: Mod Note

[kusonaga]

Well, I don't see 'hysterical' as particularly sexist in this case, as Carlie is acting rather intensely - but as a male I sometimes overlook the subtext in these words.

I'd be more inclined to consider 'melodramatic' sexist, especially considering the genre of fifties women's films that so defined that particular image (although I think 'melodramatic' is actually more appropriate here, as that is how she's acting). But I would say 'hyperbolic' or 'outrageous' come close, but don't quite cover the definition of 'hysterical'.

And I don't know... sometimes my thoughts on these things are a little unclear. But it seems to me, if we take in account all the words that men have used to demean or undermine women and how much they are apart of our daily vocabulary, it leaves a very limited field of words (in basic vocabulary that is, of course there's a lot of synonyms, but also I'm not a native speaker).

Re: Mod Note

[salinea]

Again, if there is no way to say something without it being problematic, then it's probably best left unsaid (at least on scans_daily). We are not going to allow words we view as problematic to be used simply because you can't think of any other way to say it. Yes, it is tougher on non native speakers - I am one myself, so it's not like I don't sympathize - but we're also indulgent in terms of sanctions (in case of truely harmful vocabulary, not "mod note" material like "hysterical") if we have good reason to think you don't know better because of lack of language savviness.

Re: Mod Note

[werehawk]

I was wondering about this too, but the sexism comes from the origin of the word meaning "of the womb". Swiped from Wikipedia (but confirmed on real websites)
"In the Western world, until the seventeenth century, hysteria referred to a medical condition thought to be particular to women and caused by disturbances of the uterus (from the Greek ὑστέρα "hystera" = uterus"

If I had to pick a non-sexist synonym, it would be "overemotional"

Re: Mod Note

[werehawk]

But now I see some similar comments below. So sorry for the reiteration.

Re: Mod Note

[kenwyn89]

Whilst I understand the reasons, I don't see hysterical as a particularly gendered word anymore as I frequently use it in the context of humour- and I see it as applicable to both men and women in heightened emotional states.

However, I respect the ethos of the community and will avoid using it- but I think it a little unnecessary as more people using the correct terminology (because it wasn't a gendered word in the first place) can disassociate connotations.

Re: Mod Note

[icon_uk]

Apparently, according to wiki, hysteria is a gendered term, since it was believed to be a condition unique to women, caused by perturbations in the uterus.

This I did not know.

Re: Mod Note

[sinisterlink]

Ha. I'm taking a psychology class right now and one of our recent chapters talked about that. The word hystera is Greek for uterus and like you said, that's why they named it hysteria. That's also why cutting out the uterus is called a hysterectomy. The more you know, I guess. :p

Re: Mod Note

[big_daddy_d]

This is definitely news to me too.

Re: Mod Note

[kenwyn89]

Huh, I stand corrected.

Re: Mod Note

[valtyr]

Women are a lot more likely than men to be described as hysterical. Women are a lot more likely to be told 'calm down dear'. Women are more likely to be described as getting all emotional and unreasonable.

There's a huuuuge amount of men(and some women) who consider that only MEN can use logic, and women are only capable of reacting emotionally, because of hormones and periods and tiny lady brains. So describing an excited, angry woman as hysterical taps into that whole vast aspect of dismissing women's anger because their feelings aren't considered valid.

Hysterical as in funny is a different ballgame, though - I really doubt anyone would object if you said you found Amanda Connor's art hysterically funny.

Re: Mod Note

[cleome45]

Well, if nothing else, a person who says Connor's art is "hysterically funny" is trying to be complementary.

Re: Mod Note

[kenwyn89]

I get you (and the calm down dear reference... I'd definitely agree with that one). I've not heard hysterical used that way in a long while. The fact that it can be invalidating I can get behind, especially with context. I still feel it can be used to describe a unspecific gendered state of mind with careful use, but I appreciate the clarification on the issue.

Re: Mod Note

[fifthie]

Judgmental and histrionic?

Histrionic might have some sort of sexist connotation i'm not aware of maybe.

Judgmental's rock-solid though!

[kevinroc]

You are putting me in a position to defend a character I do not actually care about. She's not a love interest created by Lee/Ditko/Romita (like Gwen and MJ) and she also isn't very popular (like Felicia was)

But notice that the first thing he says after he admits it is "How did you figure it out?" He's more concerned with his secret instead of actually feeling anything for her. It makes him come across pretty badly.

Because he asked that question, she went into a train of thought that made her question EVERYTHING they had done together.

[starwolf_oakley]

But notice that the first thing he says after he admits it is "How did you figure it out?" He's more concerned with his secret instead of actually feeling anything for her. It makes him come across pretty badly.

There's precedent. After Mary Jane said she knew (an issue or two later) Peter thought to himself: "How do I convince Mary Jane she's wrong about me being Spider-Man?"

[kevinroc]

He never knows how to handle it when somebody tells him that they know he's Spider-Man.

[starwolf_oakley]

Peter simply doesn't know the "right way" to react when someone tells him they figured out the Big Secret. But it's usually something like this:

"Peter Parker, I know you're Spider-Man."
"Um. No, I'm not."
"...My mistake."

The most mature way Peter handled it was in Brian Bendis' PULSE series, when Ben Urich revealed he knew Peter was Spider-Man.