DC Comics, psychiatrists and mental illness

[starwolf_oakley]

I've said on this board I don't like it when superhero comics (and other forms of pop culture) make it look like mental illness is some sort of moral failing.

Three actual psychiatrists have taken issue (pun intended) with DC Comics and their description of the mentally ill, especially Batman's rogues gallery. It was originally in the New York Times.

Newsarama covered it as well.

More and four pages from THE KILLING JOKE after the cut.



"You're trying to explain a character's villainy or extreme violence by using a real-life illness, that people in the real world have, that are very common. That's when it's harmful to people in real life."

"The psychiatrists repeated several time that they don't want the beloved villains in comics to be changed, and they are fine with depictions that show bizarre behavior. But they want the references to mental illnesses to be handled more responsibly."

Most comic book villains like murdering people for their own amusement. It is hard to describe the behavior of in "genuine" psychiatry terms.

There was praise for how Geoff Johns wrote Starman, who had schizophrenia, in JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA.

Here are four pages from BATMAN: THE KILLING JOKE. While the Joker wanted to prove a point about mental illness to Batman (one bad day will drive the sanest person mad) I don't think Alan Moore was trying to write an examination of mental illness. If Moore ever did examine mental illness in a graphic novel, it would be something. (WATCHMEN touched on mental illness, but it wasn't the theme of the story.)









I recall someone once saying THE KILLING JOKE would have worked better as a Two-Face story. Perhaps.

Comments

[misterbug]

Technically "From Hell" is about mental illness, but only in the sense that it be counted as a form of prayer.

[kamino_neko]

If only mis-identifying and mis-characterizing mental illnesses was the worst the bat-books did in that regard.

No, the worst is the fact that Dr Arkham's genuine desire to actually help his patients become functional (including treating them and referring to them as patients, not prisoners) was, even before he was shown to be psychotic (hallucinating 3 whole patients), and suffering from DID (where the secondary persona was a violent, manipulative psychopath), meant he was as dangerous as anyone in the asylum.

[shadowpsykie]

just got through reading the watchmen in my graphic novel class.

I had skimmed through it before and liked but this is the first time i actually read it and i LOVED it.... I also loved the Killing Joke. Moore really is a master story teller.... but he can't write women... i have yet to see him write a female character who is not a mere prop for a male character.

the thing is, i think he is CAPABLE of it,. he puts so much damn thought into all of his work. And there was more character development for Sally Jupiter in FOUR SILENT PANELS at the end of the book than every single other female character in the book had.

And Killing Joke is an excellent book, but he fucked over Barbara Gordon. (yeah he realized he messed up, but whats done is done) i think his problem is he gets an idea and be becomes obsessed with it and devotes all his time and energy to it, anything that is not connected to the main story, he considers, but only peripherally. He's still a damned genius... but he has his faults...

[oroburos69]

I don't like the implication that mental illnesses can't be helped, and that every single time a villain "gets better" they relapse within a couple of issues. Or they were faking it all along. I know it's villain recycling 101, but couldn't at least one mentally ill villain respond well to medication or therapy and go on to live a relatively normal life? In a mental hospital, of course. No need to get too unrealistic.

Of course, competent use of medication and therapy would actually have to occur at some point for that to happen.

[big_daddy_d]

As someone battling a mental illness of their own, this intrigues me. Also would like to be pointed towards said Starman focused stories in JSA.

[eyz]

Well, I'm not sure Batman villains should be taken as a good example (read: portrayals) for mental illness :P

[eyz]

-Tsk- And they still plan to shovel the JSA OUT of the DCU?
(and no, putting them back on "Earth 2" doesn't count/won't work the same because you'll also take their connection to the main DCU and their lagacies like the Starmans or Alan/Hal/John/Guy/Kyle or Jay/Barry/Wally/Bart...))

There have been some good examples actually

[blue_bolt]

I know that overall DC (and Marvel) don't portray mental illness that well but there have been some examples I've actually liked.

1. Will Magnus is bipolar, he takes meds to prevent him from going up and down but some of his most impressive (and utterly lethal) ideas are the result of manic episodes - he made a "Plutonium Man" when he stopped taking medication.

2. Niles Caulder is a cross between anti-social personality disorder and schizoid personality disorder. He meets all the criteria for being a Schizoid but only some of the criteria for anti-social personality disorder: he does care about the Doom Patrol he just doesn't seem to have any issue completely violating them mentally and physically, so he has low-empathy but not non-existent empathy. I think his causing their original "accidents" as well as remaking Rita 2.0 from gelatinous ooze counts as ASPD.

3. Cupid from Green Arrow displays what could be considered an example of a delusional disorder - that Green Arrow loves her and they are meant to be together. Stalkers who suffer from such a delusion are not persuaded by evidence or facts that they are wrong (much like creationists).


4. Ra's al Ghul has a messiah complex. He's convinced that he - and Batman - are the only people capable of creating a better world. Eventually he seems to place more faith in Talia and Nyssa but essentially he believes that he is not only one of the few capable of acting as the messiah, but that he is actively doing so in his pursuit of environmental protection. Sadly misanthropy is not a recognized mental disorder, though he certainly is a misanthrope supreme (see: tv tropes).

[mrstatham]

I don't think TKJ works as an example of an examination of mental illness in comics, somehow; Joker is always specified to have some sort of undetermined illness, usually - Be it the one Morrison ascribes to him or whatever, and the entire point of the story in is that Joker isn't right. Joker's in the wrong; he fails to drive Gordon mad, and Batman isn't the same as him, I believe, despite the implications of the final page.

If the joke Joker makes at the end is an analogy, Batman's the guy who made it across - He was able to fight through his pain, and whilst it's still there, he focuses it into something positive, making sure it never happens to anyone again. Joker is afraid of accepting help, afraid that people will let him down or leave him, and is scared that if he accepts that help, it'll fall apart. And so he remains smothered in the pain of what happened that day, to the point he probably doesn't remember what even happened anymore - or simply lies about it to make himself feel better (the 'multiple choice' line), and he takes it out on those around him.

So.. Yes. I think there's some attempt to address what Joker's issues are, but to put TKJ down as a serious attempt to examine his problems and mental issues - I don't think it works well...

[kurenai-tenka.livejournal.com]

The Newsarama link is broken! :(

[whitesycamore]

Food for thought, definitely.

A guy that I am really fond of was sectioned under the Mental Health Act a few days ago. I've felt like crying ever since, even though I know he's been this bad before, has recovered, and will recover again.

"As Grant Morrison, a well-known comic author, wrote recently, “The rest of Batman’s rogues’ gallery personified various psychiatric disorders to great effect: Two-Face was schizophrenia.”

Hah. Morrison, do you happen to know the name of the mental illness that compels you to run your mouth about stuff you know nothing about?

Patient Breakdowns of Dr. R. M. Cher...

[glprime]

Really, the whole damn concept of Arkham is an outdated conceit. With Blackgate Prison, writers could admit a number of the criminals in Gotham who kept committing violent (and profitable) crimes were not just mentally unstable and incapable of helping themselves. But the gothic symbolism and neat little package of "Arkham breakouts" being such a handy plot device is too much to pass up.
How many Bat villains are actually applicable?

- Bane: Socially stunted and lacking in empathy, but still much more sane than others, hardly any history of delusions. BLACKGATE
- Black Mask (Jeremiah Arkham): Classic dissociative disorder, with family history suggesting genetic propensity, but being later condition was largely fostered by hypnotic suggestion and medication, treatment is a likely possibility. ARKHAM.
- Calender Man: clear compulsion/obsession to his crimes, but a mind very keen and sharp. No reason his psychological bent being removed would prevent him from committing crime. BLACKGATE.
- Clayface: Beyond curing them of their abilities, there's nothing that can be done to treat them, as their mental states are dependent on their unique physiological conditions. Sociopathy/homicidal rage rampant, though how separate that is from their conditions is ambiguous. BLACKGATE or more likely D.E.O./ S.T.A.R. LABS facility.
- Deadshot: Homicidal tendencies, lack of social empathy seems evident, but he has affectionate attitude toward some relationships (friends, daughter). No delusions, compulsions or mania evident. BLACKGATE.
- Firefly: Clear pyromania, but maintained a long career as professional-for-hire arsonist. Treatment for compulsion possible, but criminal tendencies might remain. BLACKGATE prison with counseling sessions, followed by work release with D.E.O.?
- Harley Quinn: Odd pattern of fractured behavior that is hard to mesh with inconsistent patient history. Intense need to please, assimilate paired with rebellious attitude? Possible fear of abandonment? Has shown empathy and moral compass on occasion. Recommend intense therapy sessions to determine root causes. ARKHAM.
- Dr. Hugo Strange: Great intellectual capability, capable of intense logic and rationality, but operates from disturbed mentality. Successful rehabilitation unlikely. BLACKGATE.
- The Joker: Too many issues to list. But still able to note his actions having consequences (to a deliberate and pointed degree, so arguments for "love of chaos over order" does not dissuade culpability in grand schemes). BLACKGATE awaiting execution for thousands of murders.
- Man-Bat: see CLAYFACE.

Hush, Killer Croc, KGBeast, Mr. Freeze, Mr. Zsasz, The Penguin, Poison Ivy, The Scarecrow: BLACKGATE.

The Mad Hatter, Maxie Zeus, The Riddler, Two-Face, The Ventriloquist: ARKHAM.