icon_uk: (Doug)
[personal profile] icon_uk posting in [community profile] scans_daily
We've heard Cyclops and Logan's reasoning for their views in Schism, and also Hope's rather (IMHO) dismissive references to Xavier's approach.

But there is another group in the X-verse, with minds of their own.



Dani calls a meeting to get the opinions of the team. Sam and Xian have already made their choice to leave for Westchester and Dani is fine with their choices since it's what they feel they need to do).



Even I think Doug is looking a little... Peter Cushing-y in that panel. Nice that it's Warlock who suggests that things might not be entirely black and white, even if Dani was already thinking along the same lines...

Dani does decide to talk to Gus, the therapist she engaged for Utopia a couple of issues ago. He asks her outright who she is choosing to side with.





Now THIS is reasoning I can get behind, and the New Mutants are probably the best team for it.

I was thinking about it and I think the membership has been in more teams than any other X-group; Dani has worked with SHIELD and the Mutant Liberation Front (undercover), Warlock was in Excalibur (during his Douglock phase), Sunspot was in X-Force, Magma has been in two incarnations of the Hellions (one under a different psyche) and so on (Shame Sam's not stll with them, he was an actual X-Man)

And the end result? The team decides to move away from Utopia, but not to Westchester (shame, I still want to see Doug reunite with his parents) and choose set up shop in a three storey house at 1128 Mission Street in San Fransico's. (An address which exists, but which is actually the local Government building, for those who follow such things)
 

Date: 2011-11-12 06:10 pm (UTC)
salinea: (that's just rude)
From: [personal profile] salinea
She's giving her piece on one area she has issue with and bringing it up with a famous teacher, she is not going "Rar Xavier you suck!".
The validity (or absence of validity) of her point has very little to do on whether or not she was rude in the way she gave it.

Why do you make if the fact Xavier looked annoyed at her after she did it? Why do you think he called it "getting lectured" (and made reference to the fact she lacked knowledge) - if it was such a polite kind of disagreement?
Shit, she didn't even let him answer her before waltzing out.

Date: 2011-11-12 06:18 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
-
The validity (or absence of validity) of her point has very little to do on whether or not she was rude in the way she gave it.-

She was rude. She was not taking a "oh, by the way; the work of your life? You could have done it better" level of rudeness, though.

Heck, who could disagree with Xavier on anything mutant-relations related if you view it that way?

Date: 2011-11-12 06:46 pm (UTC)
salinea: (grrr)
From: [personal profile] salinea

Heck, who could disagree with Xavier on anything mutant-relations related if you view it that way?

Have you seen what I said about Dani above?

Date: 2011-11-12 07:06 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
About her having more experience? Sure, and it's true, but it's (1) not like Hope doesn't have experience on the subject of prejudice (and people dying over it) in her travels, and (2) she's still raising a good point.

Date: 2011-11-12 07:17 pm (UTC)
salinea: Storm facepalming (oy)
From: [personal profile] salinea
but it's (1) not like Hope doesn't have experience on the subject of prejudice (and people dying over it) in her travels
Hope may have experience about prejudice; but she doesn't know what it is to be a mutant in the 20th or 21th century. She cannot, she's only been there for a couple of months, at most. All prejudices aren't equivalent, they take different forms and expressions and are felt in different ways, and it's pretty presumptuous to claim that, for example, because you know what it's like to suffer from sexism, then you also know what it's like to suffer from racism.

she's still raising a good point.
It could be a good point if she had taken the time to learn more about Xavier's ideas before making it. As it is, it's dismissive, naive bullshit.

Date: 2011-11-12 07:26 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
But she's specifically experienced anti-mutant racism, was personally schooled by someone who's spent a lot of time in the 20th/21st century and is rather an expert on the subject (Cable), and finally does interact and can see the current situation.

20th century mutant racism is out of her experience, but that doesn't mean she can't grasp the current situation, and she's not a babe in the woods on the subject in general.

-It could be a good point if she had taken the time to learn more about Xavier's ideas before making it. As it is, it's dismissive, naive bullshit.
-

See, I have a problem with just dismissing what she says because of who she is.


Doubly so because she said so to a professor, who should use the opportunity to set up a discussion about it in the future.

Date: 2011-11-12 07:37 pm (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
But she's specifically experienced anti-mutant racism, was personally schooled by someone who's spent a lot of time in the 20th/21st century and is rather an expert on the subject (Cable)
Is he? If you say so.
Can you show us examples of his teaching Hope on this topic? I'm afraid I dropped that Cable series very quickly due to it being dreadfully boring.

she's not a babe in the woods on the subject in general.
She's not much better than that, I think.

Doubly so because she said so to a professor, who should use the opportunity to set up a discussion about it in the future.
If she was interested in hearing the professor's opinion, she would have let him answer, instead of running off once her lecturing was done.

Date: 2011-11-12 08:11 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
-
Is he? If you say so.
-

He did spend quite a lot of time trying to change the time period's destiny to the point of running his own nation, knowing when many of the key history-points are, and so on... and was responsible for all of Hope's education. Getting it from the literal mutant president of a country is not an insignificant source of information.

-
She's not much better than that, I think.-

Point is, you seem to be focusing largely on who's saying it.

And there's the expression, "Out of the mouths of babes." One can say smart things without massive experience.

-If she was interested in hearing the professor's opinion, she would have let him answer, instead of running off once her lecturing was done.-

She also invites him to talk later with Idie. And it's not like he didn't have a chance to respond before she said she should go, or that he couldn't stop her, or come with her...

Date: 2011-11-12 08:18 pm (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
He did spend quite a lot of time trying to change the time period's destiny to the point of running his own nation, knowing when many of the key history-points are, and so on... and was responsible for all of Hope's education.
I'm not sure I see how that entitles him to a good pov of what's being a mutant in the 20th/21th century is like. I mean, I don't know that much about Cable's History, but didn't he spend most of his life in the future?

Point is, you seem to be focusing largely on who's saying it.
So?

And there's the expression, "Out of the mouths of babes." One can say smart things without massive experience.
There are a lot of expressions; some of them are really fucking stupid.

She also invites him to talk later with Idie.
She does so very dismissively.

And it's not like he didn't have a chance to respond before she said she should go, or that he couldn't stop her, or come with her...
Oh please. She was talking, he didn't interrupt because he is polite. Then she runs off.

Date: 2011-11-12 08:45 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
-
I'm not sure I see how that entitles him to a good pov of what's being a mutant in the 20th/21th century is like. I mean, I don't know that much about Cable's History, but didn't he spend most of his life in the future?-

A fair bit of it, including studying the time period. And, like, a decade or so in the present, including being involved in mutant politics and running a country.

-
So?-

So everything seems to be 'dismissive' because of who she is.

She didn't make a venom-spilled triad or get angry or anything, which is what I'd expect from the reaction I'm seeing. I seem to have read the tone of the scene *completely* differently than a couple of posters here.

-There are a lot of expressions; some of them are really fucking stupid.-

But she actually made a good point.

-
Oh please. She was talking, he didn't interrupt because he is polite. Then she runs off.-

Then she finishes, he doesn't say anything, she tells him he's going, he doesn't say "Hope, wait one moment," before she goes (and she would stop and listen if he did), or so on.

Date: 2011-11-12 09:00 pm (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
And, like, a decade or so in the present
Given Marvel time compression, can it really be a decade?

running a country.
scuze me, do you mean Providence and that fake Eastern European country or something else?

So everything seems to be 'dismissive' because of who she is.
It's the combination of who she is and how she makes it.

She didn't make a venom-spilled triad or get angry or anything, which is what I'd expect from the reaction I'm seeing. I seem to have read the tone of the scene *completely* differently than a couple of posters here.
she doesn't seem angry or hateful; but she certainly seems hasty and disrespectful.

I think we're more than a couple of posters actually. And yes, you do seem to read it completely different.

Then she finishes, he doesn't say anything, she tells him he's going
She finishes and immediatly goes "I better go!"

he doesn't say "Hope, wait one moment," before she goes (and she would stop and listen if he did), or so on.
How would you know if she'd have stayed? She clearly seemed uninterested in whatever he could have to say.

Date: 2011-11-13 01:08 am (UTC)
crabby_lioness: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crabby_lioness
Typical teenager.

Date: 2011-11-12 08:17 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
-
And Charles Xavier has lived through a whole hell of a lot more, and has, by his actions helped define and shape that situation.-

Ok. Doesn't mean she can't have a good point.

-
If who she is is someone not qualified to make such dismissive judgements (that "probably" again), then it does seem relevant.-

Well, she's educated by someone who's studied mutant politics a *lot*, and she makes a good point.

-Except she gives him no opportunity to. She says her pieces and swans out to get something to eat, she's clearly not interesting in learning his POV.-

With, also, a comment about talking later with one of the lights....

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