aeka: (Huntress [angry]:)
[personal profile] aeka posting in [community profile] scans_daily
No violent anonymous shagging this time...(well maybe a bit of snogging), but there's still a WHOLE lot of violence, and I mean LOTS of it.

Long story short: Bone guy receiving a pummelling in these pages killed Selina's friend Lola in the last issue, and now Selina's out for revenge...Helena Bertinelli style!

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So Selina not only has anonymous violent sex with a man she doesn't even know, but she's also willing to kill now. Lovely. At least now if Helena Bertinelli really does turn out to be Helena Wayne at the end of her mini, there will be an excuse now for her willingness to kill. Fantastic!

Le sigh. Now I'm really hoping Earth-2 Selina is the Selina we saw in the 90s comics: a witty but mostly harmless thief with finesse. This Selina? There's no finesse to her. She's blunt and straight to the point. Not the Selina I know and love, which is an even bigger letdown. >:(

Date: 2011-11-16 11:54 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Is she maybe assuming Batman will catch him in time? (He said, clutching at straws in best Blue Lantern fashion)

Date: 2011-11-16 11:56 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
That's what I'm assuming.

Date: 2011-11-16 11:57 pm (UTC)
zechs80: (Mayuri)
From: [personal profile] zechs80
Do whips do those sort of actions? I don't think they do.

Date: 2011-11-16 11:57 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
"So Selina not only has anonymous violent sex with a man she doesn't even know, but she's also willing to kill now."

Remember, she killed Black Mask in the Pre-FP 'verse.

Date: 2011-11-17 12:07 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
In a world where batarangs know exactly when to wrap themselves around a suitable load bearing struts, (or indeed when to wrap themselves around targets multiple times, whips are probably straightforward enough.

Date: 2011-11-17 12:19 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
Well, it's definitely true that we had a younger, more impulsive take on Catwoman, but these are similar circumstances to what we're describing with Black Mask--from what we've seen of her past, Lola was Selina's teacher and supporter from early on. She's as important to Selina here as Maggie and Slam were before.

Date: 2011-11-17 12:19 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
where's it being hinted Huntress is really Helena Wayne? I haven't seen the scans of that.

Date: 2011-11-17 12:25 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
THis seems to be a very criminal take on Catwoman. I think, as a thief, Preboot Selina would be more understanding of violence of items, though she wouldn't justify killing, than over things like drugs or criminal territory which she herself wouldn't find valuable.

I mean maybe I'm way off but I think preboot her attitude was a sort of pretty self absorbed "The reason the things I do are okay is because I'm CATWOMAN." ANd of course no one else is. As for people sellling the stuff she steals, well it was okay because it was useful to her.

Date: 2011-11-17 12:29 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
Who's to say that this Selina has other loved ones like Lola?

Date: 2011-11-17 12:32 am (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
you know... i honestly don't hate this... i don't love it, but i don't hate it... like others have said, this character was definately a trigger for Selina. From what i have seen Selina wanting to kill this guy for it (and not just because he killed her friend, but because the way he explained it, he killed her over "things" that were meaningless, the only meaning they had were that he wanted them)

Selina is pissed. Maybe she would have killed him, maybe she wouldn't have... if she really was going to kill him, Hell with what batman says, she could kill him and still get away. but she didn't. she threw him off the building Knowing batman would catch him. I mean i can see where some peopel would be uspet with this... but i don't really see it as out of character for selina. Yes she had a no kill rule like batman, but i have always seen her in degrees, below batman, but above redhood.

Date: 2011-11-17 12:38 am (UTC)
fifthie: tastes the best (Default)
From: [personal profile] fifthie
Yeah uh... I'm not the most forgiving when it comes to characters pulling this kind of thing, but, well, like she says.

He's Batman.

Date: 2011-11-17 01:00 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
I'm saying that if Selina was justified in wanting to kill Black Mask because of killing and torturing the people she cares about, then she's justified in wanting to kill Bones for killing someone she cares about.

Date: 2011-11-17 01:20 am (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
how does she have no qualms about killing? because she didn't stop and pause to think about wether or not she should kill the man that killed, from what i have read, a woman who was pretty much a mother or godmother to her?

i'm sorry if i seem dense, i don't get how wanting to kill this guy shows she has no qualms about killing? if anything because of what he did iam surprised selina did NOT just kill him and be done with it.

This is actually decent writing

Date: 2011-11-17 01:27 am (UTC)
blue_bolt: (Default)
From: [personal profile] blue_bolt
I swore that I would never kill a defenseless individual without a damn good reason, but that was part and parcel of being in the CF. I can't blame Ms. Kyle for what she's doing here. Think about it, she didn't sign up to have her friends shot at, it just happened cause Bones there is a world class dick.

For civilians there's something called the "ordinary person defence" basically, if the average joe/jane would have done the same thing in your position despite your actions being criminal, you're sentence is reduced (and if you are very lucky it's mitigated entirely). Watching someone kill a close friend in front of you would be enough to get most fair judges to reduce your charges manslaughter in the 2nd degree (see: Manslaughter:Provocation: reasonable man defense on Wikipedia).

Date: 2011-11-17 01:41 am (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
but that has more to say about Winick than it does Selina. what ever the case maybe. About Selina, what i see is that it takes some one who is as close to a mother as she has had dying to make selina consider killing. same as with slam, same as with maggie, same as with Holly. again i don't see this out of character, because she has killed (under these circumstances) before. i mean these are not insignificant people. these are innocent people she loves. with one exception, there has always been something stopping her from actually killing them. something that allows her to stop and think. well she stopped and thought here, and she didn't kill him, even though she could have (i know I would have if i were her).

Date: 2011-11-17 02:07 am (UTC)
leoboiko: manga-style picture of a female-identified person with long hair, face not drawn, putting on a Japanese fox-spirit max (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
Strange! Punctuation! With! Exclamation! Points! Inside! The! Sentence!

Not… Batman, though… He speaks… in ellipsis… because… MYSTERIOUS

Date: 2011-11-17 03:11 am (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
while i don't agree with you 100% i do see where you are coming from. While i don't dislike Winick on this title, i don't think he was the best person to tell THIS story, (ie a reintroduction to catwoman in the DCnU). i would have less of a problem with this story if it was... say issue 30 or more. but i agree, telling this story so early on is a mistake, and some one else should have been writing this....

truth be told, i would be interested to see how Gail Simone would write her.

that said, i am... well not enjoying this run, it has lots of problems.... but i am not hating it. ("not hating this" should not be the way to start off a new series though)

Date: 2011-11-17 07:39 am (UTC)
oroburos69: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oroburos69
Does the sequence with the baseball bat not look oddly similar to the sequence where the Joker killed Jason? Or is that just me? Or is it that there's only so many ways to draw someone being beaten with a blunt instrument?

If I pretend that this is a new character all together, I really like her in these scans. No random cleavage, wearing flat-soled boots, violently angry and seemingly wildly impulsive in a way that works...there's a lot to like about this portrayal.

I sort of feel like Batman is more out of character for not trying to take her to jail or something. Because seriously, she attacked a guy with a baseball bat and tried to kill him.

Date: 2011-11-17 07:52 am (UTC)
jjgalahad: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jjgalahad
A whip, when used properly, can easily break the sound barrier and slice through denim. A bullwhip, if snapped just so, could feasibly push him over the edge - if he was very, very close to it and/or didn't weigh a great deal.

Date: 2011-11-17 08:00 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
I don't know, this take on Catwoman totally works for me. It certainly doesn't work as well if you go directly from what Brubaker was doing, but as a younger, more impulsive take, it works.

"I sort of feel like Batman is more out of character for not trying to take her to jail or something. Because seriously, she attacked a guy with a baseball bat and tried to kill him."

My guess is that Batman's been after this guy for a while himself--and that's always kind-of been his struggle with Catwoman--she does things that are against the law, but he cares about her in a way that makes it hard for him to put her away.

Date: 2011-11-17 09:17 am (UTC)
eyz: (Default)
From: [personal profile] eyz
This series is really bugging me...
*goes back reading Cooke & Brubaker's Catwoman series*

Date: 2011-11-17 12:08 pm (UTC)
benicio127: (Default)
From: [personal profile] benicio127
This is just awful. It keeps getting worse and worse. We didn't have to repeatedly see a dead woman. And Selina's characterization has just been... aaaagh the guns, really?!?!

Give this series -- the writing AND art duties to others, please DC. I'm just saying Kathryn Immonen and Amy Reeder would kill it on this. Sex and violence is really not what I'm looking for in a Catwoman book. I'm looking for an awesome complex character. The Brubaker and Cooke Catwoman series was awesome. This is basically garbage.

Date: 2011-11-17 01:27 pm (UTC)
jelly_ace: (sad)
From: [personal profile] jelly_ace
It reads like a bad movie.

Date: 2011-11-17 02:14 pm (UTC)
mrosa: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrosa
So this is the second time she goes batshit crazy and violently beats up a criminal in three issues?

Date: 2011-11-17 06:23 pm (UTC)
fifthie: tastes the best (Default)
From: [personal profile] fifthie
bad canonical fanfiction.


...given the reboot, it's not like you even have to allow that any of this is canon anyway.

Date: 2011-11-17 07:59 pm (UTC)
midnightvoyager: Just Middy (Erk)
From: [personal profile] midnightvoyager
CHRIST, that art is hideous. That first page will be seen in my nightmares for years.

Date: 2011-11-18 12:04 am (UTC)
v_various: (Default)
From: [personal profile] v_various
I can't quite put my finger on why, but from what I've seen of this title it reminds me of the old "Lois Lane" comics, where she's always trying to trick superman into marrying her.

At least the smut in Tarot is funny & interesting. This book gets two thumbs down.

Date: 2011-11-18 02:27 am (UTC)
chipsnopotatoes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] chipsnopotatoes
I didn't interpret this as her being eager to kill, but more like pushed to her limits and so enraged that she loses control. I can't fault her for it, frankly.

You're right, this isn't the Selina we know. It's a much younger, more vulnerable version of the crafty cunning woman we love. She just hasn't grown into her yet. Having said that, I would like Winick to put a little more thought in her revenge sequences -- more variety and finesse. She can't be resorting to violence all the time. That would get old. Also, sometimes, the best revenge can be exacted by letting them live.

Despite the violence, what balanced this issue out for me were the pages with Lola. I really loved it. I love how excited she was showing off her first loot and asking Lola to move it. I love the photos of her and Lola goofing around on vacation. It shows me that despite the sucky childhood she must have had, there were still happy times, and that she's not so damaged a character that she isn't capable of enjoying life to the max.

The scene with Batman, while still kind of dry, actually had a point. I thought that was pretty clever of her throwing Bone off the roof and distracting Bats. And even her going back to Lola's apartment to get rid of the evidence. That shows presence of mind and survival instincts kicking in despite the grief. I admire that.

All in all, I enjoyed the issue. I'm really surprised by it because I was expecting something completely different and was ready to drop the book.

Re: This is actually decent writing

Date: 2011-11-18 02:40 am (UTC)
chipsnopotatoes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] chipsnopotatoes
It's like the 80 yr old granny who shot two ex-cons in the groin for raping her grand daughter. The police didn't know what to do since she was too old to go to jail plus everyone wanted to vote her in for mayor.

Date: 2011-11-18 02:57 am (UTC)
chipsnopotatoes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] chipsnopotatoes
Lol. You're giving Winick a much longer rope than I. This was my make or break issue. Fortunately, for him, I'm in for the next one.

Date: 2011-11-18 03:03 am (UTC)
chipsnopotatoes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] chipsnopotatoes
Marjorie Liu (writing) + Yanick Paquette (art) + Adam Hughes (on cover) = Catwoman Dream Team.

Having said that, this issue turned the book around for me. I'm so surprised I actually liked it despite the violence. There were other parts of the book that compensated for it.

Date: 2011-11-18 03:19 am (UTC)
benicio127: (Heh)
From: [personal profile] benicio127
I like that writer/artist combo, too. Love Marjorie Liu and I think she'd do a fantastic job with Selina as well.

Date: 2011-11-18 03:22 am (UTC)
benicio127: (Lois love)
From: [personal profile] benicio127
I actually got the Brubaker and Cooke series through the Comixology iPad app. You can read each panel at a time. I felt like it was a perfect way of being able to take in every little bit of Cooke's amazing art. God, that series is so good.

Date: 2011-11-18 03:26 am (UTC)
benicio127: (Default)
From: [personal profile] benicio127
The fact that Winick was this quick to put her in a situation where she considers sending a guy to his death this early in her story says a lot about how he sees this character, which tells me (after three issues so far) that he has a very superficial understanding of the character at best.

Agreed. Well-said. For me, Winick is very hit or miss with female characters. Dinah, Wonder Woman, Selina, Ice? No, no, no. Mia, Talia, Grace, Anissa, Onyx? Yes.


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