Foundation of Clay

[arbre_rieur]

Four pages from WONDER WOMAN 3...

Comments

[golden_orange]

But those aren't the views I'm finding questionable (although personally, I think changing her origin is legit, but that's clearly something we're not going to be seeing eye-to-eye on). Okay, you dislike that they've changed Wonder Woman's origins and think that it cheapens and devalues her as a character and loses originality. I may disagree with you on several of these points in several ways, and it's becoming increasingly apparent that we're not going to be changing each other's minds about it any time soon, but I can understand where you're coming from here (some, at least; I don't really see what you're talking about when you accuse Wonder Woman of being 'just more muscle').

It's when you accuse Wonder Woman of things like 'random acts of violence' against the Amazons and lay into her for "punch(ing) one of her fellow amazons square in the face in front of everyone WHILE THEY'RE MOURNING and telling them to stop calling her names just because one called her by her real name" while seemingly completely ignoring the contexts in which these things happen -- firstly, that the Amazon she 'punches at random' has been clearly attempting to incite her fellow Amazons against her throughout the episode and is clearly challenging her when Diana makes a punch, and that one of the names she is demanding they stop using towards her is clearly established as being a name they've been using towards her with some contempt, hence why she might not like being called it -- that I start to think that you're letting your overall views on the story colour the points you're making.

But like I say, I get the distinct feeling that we're not going to be changing each other's minds on this anytime soon.

[jeyl]

"she is demanding they stop using towards her is clearly established as being a name they've been using towards her with some contempt"

Amazons. Let's make them less like a family who refer to themselves as sisters and more like middle school bullies who pick on those who are different... for no good reason. I honestly don't know why the Amazons are bothered by Diana's conception given that, I don't know, SHE'S THE DAUGHTER OF THEIR QUEEN. And if Hippolyta really loved her daughter, why would she allow the Amazons to mock her daughter like this so openly, especially since her conception?

"while seemingly completely ignoring the contexts in which these things happen"

Oh, I understand the context, it's just not a well written one. I don't see any logic in the Amazons behavior when they mock Diana by calling her "clay", or when they plan a rouse against her. What was the point? What do they hope to accomplish? If it's because she's different, that's a pretty lame excuse since she's about as much of a warrior as they are, especially now since she's got genuine amazon blood in her.

But does Diana try to console with the Amazons about this? No. Does she try to express how she feels in learning this recent revelation so that everyone can understand how she could be more Amazon than they had previously thought? No. Does she express any sort of love or compassion towards ANY of her Amazon sisters who have probably been nice and loving towards her since conception? No. She doesn't do anything to make her standing with the Amazons better. She got angry learning the truth, learned that the Amazons don't like her, and went out looking for a fight. After that's done, she decides to abandon the island and leave all her sisters because she's angry. It is here at that moment of anger and violence where the book proudly declares that this is the new Wonder Woman. Not a hero who with compassion and a lust for life, but a warrior who solves issues through anger and violence. She's leaving her family, and the book wants me to think that this is an awesome moment. It's not.

[golden_orange]

"Amazons. Let's make them less like a family who refer to themselves as sisters and more like middle school bullies who pick on those who are different... for no good reason."

This assumes that the two are mutually exclusive, though; plenty of families have plenty of bullying dicks within them. Especially if the amount of people in the family numbers in the hundreds. It's not all endless love, niceness and support.

"If it's because she's different, that's a pretty lame excuse since she's about as much of a warrior as they are, especially now since she's got genuine amazon blood in her."

Prejudice ain't exactly rational, though. And we don't know how many of them knew she had genuine amazon blood and how many didn't.

"But does Diana try to console with the Amazons about this? No. Does she try to express how she feels in learning this recent revelation so that everyone can understand how she could be more Amazon than they had previously thought? No. Does she express any sort of love or compassion towards ANY of her Amazon sisters who have probably been nice and loving towards her since conception? No. She doesn't do anything to make her standing with the Amazons better."

Why exactly is all of this on Diana's shoulders, though? She's just learnt her entire life is based on a life, that there was apparently a conspiracy to keep the truth from her (and she doesn't know who's part of it and who isn't), she's feeling upset, betrayed and angry, and then she comes across her 'sisters' apparently conspiring against her. And since it seems pretty clear that there's a whole load of them who very much haven't been "nice and loving towards her since conception", why exactly would she feel particularly well-disposed to them at that point? She's not a robot.

"She's leaving her family, and the book wants me to think that this is an awesome moment. It's not."

It seems pretty clear to me that the book wants us to think that this is actually rather a sad moment coloured by betrayal and hurt than an awesome one.