espanolbot: (Default)
espanolbot ([personal profile] espanolbot) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily2011-12-07 23:31

Nightwing: Dick and other Cringeworthy Comicbook Moments

Warning for nudity, sexism, racism and a horrible instant of "slut shaming".

From the second Nightwing Annual from 2007, here's Dick and Babara's first meeting following the events of the Killing Joke.



Shouldn't the kissing panel me more "Mfffffhhhhh" than "shh"?

Jennifer Walters at the receiving end of one of the worst "slut shamings" in Marvel comicbooks.


Context: the Leader is arguing that gamma radiation poisoning makes people not responsible for their actions, which is the logic used to excuse Dr Banner for the Hulk's frequent rampages, so legally his megalomaniac tendencies aren't his fault either. As more evidence of this, he has his lawyer bring up a full list of the people Jennifer slept with as She-Hulk versus ones as herself to be entered as evidence of how gamma radiation effects her judgement, or something.

Legal explanation or not, it still seems to be as about as liable in court as that time in Veronica Mars where a defence lawyer uses Mars' confidential medical records to damage her statement.

Wonder Woman had the patience of a saint in the old days...


Come to think of it, so must have Sue...


And Kathy Kane...


The Beast appears to be either a master of sarcasm, or he's trying to spare Jean's feelings.


Oh, Billy, no! Bad idea! Bad idea! No stop!


*facepalm* Editors, you're not helping!


Up Next, depending on if it's in the public domain, I'll be analysing this,

It's a terrible comic both in ways that should be obvious, and ways that aren't.

If it's not in the public domain, I'll be doing a special on Jack Chick instead.
gn6196: (Default)

[personal profile] gn6196 2011-12-08 12:14 (UTC)(link)
''Slut shaming " hmmm. I few weeks ago I watched a Program about a woman accused of murdering her husband. The deceased was a soldier and in the weeks following the death, the wife slept with about 6 other soldiers including a threesome with a married couple. It was brought into evidence and the soldiers were on the stand as well. They used her behavior to show that she was far from a grieving widow.I guess she was "slut shamed " but it was allowed to connect her actions to her supposed grief or lack of.
whitesycamore: (Default)

[personal profile] whitesycamore 2011-12-08 14:32 (UTC)(link)
And yet in gender-flipped cases I've heard people arguing the opposite - for example that a recently widowed man visiting prostitutes was proof of how much he loved his wife, and how much he missed her (for the record, I myself don't think that says anything about how much or how little he loved his wife).

We are still much more likely to view sex as a need for men, and one that is more or less separate from their moral character. Whereas in the case that you're talking about, it seems pretty clear that they aren't just trying to argue that sex is something a grieving widow wouldn't usually want* - they are trying to use the amount and perceived deviance of the sex (i.e. the threesome) as proof of what a weird and nasty and morally dubious woman she is.

The disturbing thing is that to many people that type of 'evidence' would be all too persuasive. They would be disgusted enough by the idea of a woman acting so far out from her prescribed role that they wouldn't need to hear anything else.

In effect, it could be argued that they are trying to shift the focus from the crime of murder to the crime of being a slut. Because once they've convinced the jury that she's guilty of the latter, it's much easier to convince them of the former as well.

*which is actually a very contentious claim in itself. We're well familiar with the concept of 'drowning your sorrows'; isn't the idea of taking solace in sex quite similar?
gn6196: (Default)

[personal profile] gn6196 2011-12-08 15:14 (UTC)(link)
People will behave in peculiar was sometimes but we usually connect a persons state of mind with their behavior. The woman , in this particular case, was accused of poisoning her husband. Looks bad that she acted the way she did after his death.
whitesycamore: (Default)

[personal profile] whitesycamore 2011-12-08 16:15 (UTC)(link)
I'm suspicious of attempts to infer a woman's state of mind from her sexual behaviour.

The way people interpret the meaning of women's sexuality is inevitably going to be biased, and in our culture it tends to err on the side of "she had sex, therefore she's bad."

shadowpsykie: Information (Default)

[personal profile] shadowpsykie 2011-12-09 02:34 (UTC)(link)
well, except if she was trying to portray that she was one way, yet was acting another. it's not "She's had sex, she's bad" it's "She has been portraying that she is one way, but she was acting another way."

now i have seen cases, and tv shows that have used this on both men and women. using a man's sex life post death of spouse or lover, and a woman's sex life post death of partner. i have seen cases play out where promiscuous behavior after the death of a partner has been used to paint the person on the stand in a negative light, AND the other side claiming that it was a coping mechanism over the death of thier partner.

the truth of the matter is lawyers can take something innocuous and make it into something positive or negative.
whitesycamore: (Default)

[personal profile] whitesycamore 2011-12-09 13:42 (UTC)(link)
"She has been portraying that she is one way, but she was acting another way."

But there's not only *one* way to be a grieving widow. I get the point that the prosecution is trying to make, but I don't personally agree that it's a legitimate one. It just carries too many culturally biased assumptions about the nature of grief, marriage, and female sexuality.

the truth of the matter is lawyers can take something innocuous and make it into something positive or negative.

I know. I just think it tends to cater to prejudice rather than truth. I think the whole adversarial system is pretty fucked up, honestly.
benicio127: (Default)

[personal profile] benicio127 2011-12-10 15:25 (UTC)(link)
Good POINTS!
greenmask: (Default)

[personal profile] greenmask 2011-12-08 17:09 (UTC)(link)
They used her behavior, yeah, to support their hypothesis that she was far from the traditional image of a grieving widow, and therefore potentially also far from the traditional image of a non-murdering wife.

To be more specific.

Now if those soldiers with whom she slept gave evidence that this woman was lol'ing it up about how she'd got away with poisoning her husband, or kept talking about how much she had resented him or whatever, then fair enough. But in that case, it's still not the sex that's the relevant part.
whitesycamore: (Default)

[personal profile] whitesycamore 2011-12-08 21:28 (UTC)(link)
"They used her behavior, yeah, to support their hypothesis that she was far from the traditional image of a grieving widow, and therefore potentially also far from the traditional image of a non-murdering wife."

:D

The traditional image of the non-murdering wife is an oppressive feminine stereotype. Did you know it requires literally no murder? Who can live up to that kind of standard?!
greenmask: (Default)

[personal profile] greenmask 2011-12-08 21:32 (UTC)(link)
Some of us are naturally INCLINED towards non-murder, you know, therefore it is a stereotype that is POSITIVE, now get in line and put away the knife, you lazy bum! It only takes a little effort~
shadowpsykie: Information (Hope Silly)

[personal profile] shadowpsykie 2011-12-09 02:36 (UTC)(link)
pst.... greenmask... don't antagonize her... that's a REALLY big knife...