JMS vs Steve Wacker: It's On

[cyberghostface]

Hoo boy, this is getting good. JMS posted a graph showing the sales on Amazing Spider-Man have fallen since his departure (and the start of the BND status quo) on his Facebook, and needless to say Steve Wacker ain't too happy about it.

Too much to summarize, so you can read all about it here. What I find hilarious is how Wacker points out how they had the most successful issue of the last 15 years, but doesn't mention that it's the one with Barack Obama on the cover right after he was elected. Anyone want to guess why that was a huge success?

For legality...



This comes from (of course) Amazing Spider-Man #50.

Comments

[pyrotwilight]

Hah, a bit of a pissing contest but it's really Mark Waid's reply that'll make this memorable. XD

[blackruzsa]

Actually, all I'll remember is Dan Slott's hugs.

Does he do that often?

[auggie18]

I like how Dan Slott tried to handle that. Haven't read a thing the man has written since She-Hulk, but still. Hugging it out is totally the way to go.

[glprime]

JMS had me at the first infograph, then lost me with his BS flip-flopping in response. And yes, Mark Waid truly owned JMS with his "Grounded" criticism.

Yes, the Spider-Man books have been all over the place (but mostly down) since JMS left, and yes, he responded to someone challenging his assertion like a passive-aggressive wimp.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

"And yes, Mark Waid truly owned JMS with his "Grounded" criticism."

Linky please?

[glprime]

It's actually the last comment on the OP's link (the HERE in "read all about here"; kinda tiny, actually).

[akodo_rokku]

This feels like Dane Cook's "The Nothing Fight" bit.

[rainspirit]

I skimmed pass the cockfight, went right to Mark Waid's response, and OH MAN. Argument over, nothing more can be done there.

[kamino_neko]

Same here.

Beautiful burn, that.

[q99]

Here's a question: Which one of you was saddled with OMD and which one wasn't? Hmmmm?

[airawyn]

You know, if JMS had phrased that as "since OMD" instead of "since my departure", it would have been significantly less douchy.

[dejadrew]

Yeah, then it would have come across as "look how much that editorial decision sucked," not "Look how much awesomer I was."

I mean, I -loved- JMS's run on Spidey, but just, yeah.

[cypherfdp]

That Waid response is fucking artistic.

[cypherfdp]

i mean godDAMN

the sickest burn

[leikomgwtfbbq]

EVERYBODY GO HOME.

MARK WAID WINS FOREVER.

[icon_uk]

Yeah, I'm going with the consensus here that this was a seriously dickish move on JMS' part and Mark Waids reply was brilliant.

[golden_orange]

You know those super-rare moments that happen on the internet where you're having an argument with someone and then you just come up with the absolute perfect smack-down that guarantees that no matter what they say or don't say next, they've just utterly lost?

Yeah, Mark Waid just had one of those moments.

[superfangirl1]

MARK WAID


kelso burn pics on Sodahead


JMS

[mrstatham]

Way to go Waid. Still doesn't make some of JMS' points any less valid, though. And Wacker comes across as his usual diplomatic self - I like how he still tries to sell books in amongst telling someone to fuck off. Waid's defense also reeks of self-preservation, given he actually wrote some of those 130 issues, and let us not forget that he's also been quite candid about DC and Dan Didio's attitude, at times.

[suzene]

Wacker: Has a history of being thoroughly unpleasant to any fan who doesn't think Marvel's handling of the Spidey-family has been super-duper fun cool. Sympathy: 0.

JMS: I suspect he googles his own name several dozen times a day, given how often I've seen him show up on random message boards just because he was mentioned, and this smells of grudgewank. Sympathy also at zero.

Waid: Would be getting backpats for being the adult in the group, except that he just took a swipe at someone who claims to have had to back off of his Superman and Wonder Woman runs due to health issues. (Admittedly, given JMS' history, I'd be inclined to take it with a grain of salt myself, but unless we've got proof that that it's not true...)

In short, not really impressed with anyone involved here.

[q99]

Quitting aside, they still weren't very good issues. Heck, I'd say the quitting is when both story arcs improved a lot...

[lencannon]

The tale of Superman, the oddly racist libertarians walk across the US.

[q99]

Or the tale of Wonder Woman, the story where we follow a heroine of which we know nothing about until Phil Hester shows up and kicks the plot into high gear.

[shadowpsykie]

i get what JMS was trying to do there, and i think it worked very well.... when he wasn't writing it... when hester picked it up he told JMS' story better than JMS

[shadwing]

Yeah it's when Hester took over stuff started to HAPPEN and made me REALLY hacked when the did the Reboot Cuz I wanted to see what he could do Solo

[suzene]

If he'd left it at the "long, boring walk across America", comment, I'd say it was all fair game so far as taking the wind out of JMS's sails (because, yes, seriously, not very good comics). Bringing up the delays or the lack of resolution is a dick move, though -- it's not like the guy was off playing video games.

[kamino_neko]

JMS has something of a habit of not finishing Stories.

I'm still waiting for resolution of The Twelve. (Well, except that I'm actually not. I enjoyed the book when it was coming out, but not enough that 3 years is an acceptable delay.)

[suzene]

I noted that above. But the Superman/Wonder Woman debacle was the first time I've ever heard him claim that it was due to health problems, and not due to giving priority to other projects.

[glprime]

The mature one was Dan Slott.

[suzene]

Ever since he showed up on the personal journal of one of his critics and engaged in some whining, "maturity" and "Dan Slott" are words I have a hard time using too close to each other. But yes, it is nice that he decided not to contribute to this slapfight -- it really didn't need the help.

[mullon]

This isn't fair. I don't like current Spiderman, but Waid won that argument. Why couldn't JMS been less douchy when he said that sutff?

[lencannon]

Because if there's a non-douchey way to say "Look how much you guys suck now that I'm gone" than I haven't found it.

[brooms]

lmao dan kumbaya slott

http://youtu.be/MhBM7H-ggvY

[intertobamf]

I'm assuming that the chart came from box_in_the_box? "Blogger who has a massive, medically enhanced hate for the comic and the people at Marvel" would seem to be an accurate description.

[rainspirit]

Oh man, that guy? I feel dirty for knowing that now.

Ditto..

[steverodgers5]

That was the guy who when he was here would post Gifs of someone waving there bare ass at us, whenever he throught he'd 'won' a point in his criticisms of Marvel..(Sigh!)

Can't say I miss him..(Just saying..;))

[halloweenjack]

"medically enhanced"? What does that mean, exactly, and where is the evidence?

[biod]

It's been said, but:
Dayumn, Waid!

[fredneil.livejournal.com]

I said comic books should be written FOR 12 year old, not BY 12 year olds.

And it's "fewer hugs," not "less hugs."

[stubbleupdate]

I'm with you, just look at the nonsense from Bleedingcool

[i]Steve Wacker looks at a softening of the comics market. By which he means there are [b]less[/b] comic stores, and [/b]less[/b] people buying comics. [/i]

Strike a light, this is from a site with pretensions to journalistic credibility. Somebody get them a stylebook.

[stillanerd]

And Rich Johnson from Bleeding Cool decided to weigh in on this again with his own chart and analysis. Guess what he found out?

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/12/11/numbercrunching-spiderman-statistics/

[silverzeo]

THe Gold-plated Wii-Remote that was part of the Skyward Sword bundle pack is most coveted by nerds everywhere. Heck, I bet the even the Burger King games are more sought than that Obama issue. I bet those poor smoes who bought a dozen of the 1st addition must be kicking themselves now...

[eyz]

Zing!

Dat JMS...bwahaha!

Heh! Go Mr Waid!

[steverodgers5]

Mark Waid, I think I love you!

JMS has always had a snarky ego. I remember someone making a well reasoned valid point about Babylon 5's 5th season to him at a convention, and he just read soooo much of an insult into it and then threw such a total childish tantrum at the guy.

This was the first time that I realised what he was really like, (Because I'd loved Babylon 5) but it would only prove to be the first of many occasions where he would behave in such a fashion. (His worst was on a Spiderman message board where he rounded on folks who questioned his treatment of Gwen Stacey, trying to turn it around on them to say that it was their judgment of the character's new 'history' that was proving that they didn't respect the character of Gwen. Yes, seriously.)

And then of course for years he was insulting all the writers at DC about how they didn't understand Superman, and how his background gave him an unique insight into the character, to such a degree that he could quite easily come up with the best Superman story ever written if only someone gave him the opportunity to do so.

He got that opportunity. And we got Grounded. (Or some of it at any rate..) Sigh!

And no I don't think Earth One was any better. Heck both Birthright and Man of Steel for my money were stronger tellings of Supes origins.

Waid's slapdown of JMS was long overdue. And damn am I glad that someone called him on that 'Just sayin' jibe. Because he's been signing off with that, on most of his snarky put downs for years. About time someone pointed that out to him.