scans_daily: Batman and Robin #4 preview

sherkahn (

sherkahn) wrote in

scans_daily,
@ 2011-12-12 06:17 am UTC

Entry tags:

char: alfred pennyworth, char: batman/bruce wayne, char: robin/damian wayne, creator: patrick gleason, creator: peter j. tomasi, title: batman and robin

Batman and Robin #4 preview

Fallout from their encounter with new foe NoBody begins for Batman and son. ComicBookResources has the preview. 2 pages behind the cut.

The Wayne's have a dynamic discussion (I know that you know that I know....), which leads to (once again) Alfred showing the World's Greatest Detective that his missed something.

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aeka
2011-12-12 03:00 pm UTC (link)

Is it just me or does Damian's eye colour tend to shift between blue and black? :/

More on topic, I think the first step to Bruce being a better parent is unlearning to be Batman, and as we all know, will never happen.

On another note, this makes me miss Dick/Damian as Batman and Robin. I don't know if it's the fact that Dick is more relaxed and has a sense of humour, or the fact that he's not related to Damian, but I've always felt Dick had a better handle on Damian than Bruce currently does. o.O

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icon_uk
2011-12-12 03:20 pm UTC (link)

I think the first step to Bruce being a better parent is unlearning to be Batman

That might work for me if Damian were the first child that Bruce had had to work with as an "in loco parentis" in stead of the FOURTH! Yes, each child is different, but this is not an area Bruce has NO experience in.

On another note, this makes me miss Dick/Damian as Batman and Robin

Agreed, and I wish that this were referenced. Quite so pointedly ignoring what Dick and Damian achieved as Batman and Robin seems a disservice to both of them.

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aeka
2011-12-12 06:23 pm UTC (link)

I'm not sure about that to be honest. His relationship with the other Robins feels considerably different from the one he shares with Damian. For starters he always seems to treat the Robins more like partners or "sidekicks" rather than actual sons. There's also the fact that the other Robins seem to think of him as more of a friend and something of a father figure at best.

With Damian, he KNOWS he is Bruce's biological son and feels more entitled to him than probably the other Robins do. I also doubt (and anyone is free to correct me on this) that the other Robins expected him to be more a father to them, whereas Damian does. Therefore he expects Bruce to see him more as his own flesh and blood, not as just another troubled kid he took in who needs repair, and therein lies the disconnect.

Bruce may have *some* experience with raising a child, but he hasn't really learned to connect with Damian on a more personal and emotional level, and I think--from what I've read so far--is where the problem lies. This isn't to say he isn't trying, cause he is. But he needs to do more than just acknowledge that Damian is his son and that he needs to be there for him, he also needs to be emotionally available and to him as well. Damian needs to feel like he has a father that he can confide in and rely on. Right now he has Batman for a father, and Batman puts his war on crime first, Damian second. Hence my "he needs to unlearn being Batman" comment. Right now he doesn't *see* himself as a mortal man with a beating heart inside of him. He sees himself as a powerful threat that criminals fear and has dehumanised himself as a result.

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shadowpsykie
2011-12-12 06:54 pm UTC (link)

i'm gonna have to disagree with you on several points. It's true that the other Robins are not his flesh and blood. But they weren't just hard cases he took in. He reached out to Dick on a very emotional level when his parents died.

They are not just parterns or sidekicks, to him they are his kids. The relationship with Dick (pre reboot and damned if i will believe they have done away with that) is very much father and son, so is the relationship with Jason (emphasized post reboot). Tim, pre-reboot very much saw him as a father. When he adopted the other boys he hesitated, not because he didnt care for them, but because he felt like they might think he was trying to replace thier parents, but once he told them, they whole heartedly accepted. No, they definately view him as a father.

Damian on the other hand iagree... he feels that since he is flesh and blood he is entitled to role as Bruce's son. even more so than the other robins.

I agree that Bruce isn't h andling Damian right. He's going from the belief that he was raised in a strict, yet at the same time very free enviroment. he was very much mommy's little boy and got whatever he wanted. so Bruce feels like he has to keep a tighter reign on damian because (a) it's what he is used to and (b) its what he never really had... if that makes sense.

Bruce as "I am the night" batman when he is with the kids is what happens when a writer gets him wrong. yes, its in character to be harsh and overly critical and down right domineering with them, but that is not ALL thier relationship is. he's not perfect. no one is. but when he is, for the most part, depicted as the guy who doesn't know how to be a father, then the writers are getting it wrong. Batman is first and formost the man who wants to ensure that other children don't grow up to be him.

with Damian we have a completely different dynamic to what he is used to. he is not used to being the not grimm one, and having to hold back his Robin (that sounds dirty...) i honestly think Bruce's problem is that he is not sure HOW he should handle Damian. hence the erratic gestures "Don't go out tonite because I said so" to "Here Damie, here's a puppy, boys like Puppies!" to "You are my son and I am trying to protect you" to "You are my son and you do what i say" this is a situation Bruce has never been in and i don't think it has anything with Damian being his blood kin, and more to do with Damian just being a different type of person than he has had to interact with before.

that said, again, he should sit down with Dick and or Alfred and talk about how best to handle Damian.

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aeka
2011-12-12 09:26 pm UTC (link)

Thanks for the info. Admittedly I'm not too in-depth with Bruce's relationship with all of his Robins other than what I've seen on here. At best I *do* know Earth-2 Bruce had a father-son relationship with Dick Grayson to the point of a fierce and unwavering loyalty that even strained Dick's relationship with Helena Wayne at one point. However, that's Earth-2 continuity. The main continuity is a different playground all together.

Nevertheless, I do stand by what I said with regards to Bruce's parenting style with Damian. Whether or not this is due to faulty writing, however, is subject to debate.

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	no subject shadowpsykie 2011-12-12 09:45 pm UTC (link)
	Oh i agree that he is not handling Damian well. i think that Damian is so different from all the other Robins that he just doens't understand HOW to deal with him. like i said, he is trying "Boys like Puppies right?" but he really should talk to alfred or dick about him. it might be easier on him (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

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aeka
2011-12-12 10:15 pm UTC (link)

I'm pretty sure Damian being (a) his biological son, and (b) having been raised by Talia are contributing factors. Unlike the other Robins, Damian was trained from Day 1 to be an assassin, and his being blood-related to Bruce causes him to feel more entitled to Bruce. Bruce on the other hand acknowledges and accepts that he is his son but remains emotionally unattached to him and sees him more as a 'kid who needs fixing.' So yeah, there's considerable disconnect between the two.

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	no subject icon_uk 2011-12-13 12:10 am UTC (link)
	Bruce on the other hand acknowledges and accepts that he is his son but remains emotionally unattached to him But again, we've seen that Bruce forms emotional attachments* to children quite easily, especially those who in some way need his support. * Which I mean in only the most wholesome of ways. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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shadowpsykie
2011-12-12 03:50 pm UTC (link)

well i think Bruce is trying. ever since he has come back from the dead he has been better at the whole emotions thing. He's not a bad parent, he's a difficult parent. (Bad parents are Ross, and Lane... except Flashpoint Lane irronically).

the problem with Bruce here is that he thinks Damian would only understand a firm hand. Even so he is trying to show that he trusts him and trying to give him somethign to care about by giving him Ace (we all know that's Ace:)

so Bruce isn't incompentant at parenting, he's just having a harder time dealing with Damian than he was with the others. Though i do believe he should have a conversation with Dick and i don't know... go over notes....?

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junipepper
2011-12-12 06:20 pm UTC (link)

This I'd like to see! Bruce should sit down with Dick and get his perspective, get some advice. I think it would show his respect for both Dick and Damian. But I feel like the whole Dick/Damian show might as well not have happened, for all the good it did. It seems like the writers have taken Damian almost all the way back to the way he was in the beginning with Dick, so Damian and Bruce can go through the same damn process, but not as effectively. It's a waste.

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	no subject aeka 2011-12-12 06:29 pm UTC (link)
	Refer to my comment above. ^ (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject darkknightjrk 2011-12-12 03:51 pm UTC (link)
	I liked the Dick/Damian interaction too, but I'm also loving seeing Bruce and Damian try to interact. They're both awesome and engrossing for different reasons. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject nyadnar17 2011-12-12 03:52 pm UTC (link)
	To be fair, has anyone in the DCU without a sense of humor had any luck getting through to or understanding Damien? Seems to be a requirement. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject brooms 2011-12-12 04:46 pm UTC (link)
	I'm all for dumping the kid on Nightwing's book, tbh!! Everyone wins, imho. Will always love Bruce, but not a fan of his (repetitive) relationship with Damian or the kid himself. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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littlepunkryo
2011-12-12 07:51 pm UTC (link)

I actually agree, I think Dick did a far, far better job with Damian than Bruce has. Damian needs, well, someone more like Dick and less like Bruce to help smooth out his rough edges; with Bruce, especially a Bruce who is completely uncompromising and doesn't listen, Damian is only gonna get worse. As much as I wish Dick had corrected a lot of Damian's other behavior he did a good job curbing a lot of his more violent tendencies.

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	no subject cainofdreaming 2011-12-12 03:38 pm UTC (link)
	Mr. Castle? What are you doing in the Batcave? (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 4 comments) (Show 4 comments)

	no subject nyadnar17 2011-12-12 03:50 pm UTC (link)
	lol my thought exactly. Castle and Wayne should do a Jerry Springer episode together. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

	no subject sherkahn 2011-12-12 06:21 pm UTC (link)
	Bruce: "MY PARENTS-" Frank: "MY WIFE AND KIDS-" in unison: " ARE DEAAAAD!" and they hug it out to subtle piano music. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject hw221 2011-12-14 04:37 am UTC (link)
	Yes. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject darkknightjrk 2011-12-12 03:52 pm UTC (link)
	It's the shadows around the eyes and the slicked-back hair that just does it for me. I remember Daniel did something similar during Batman #701/702. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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shadowpsykie
2011-12-12 04:02 pm UTC (link)

hmmmm i'm not liking that Damian is trying to make this all Bruce's fault. No i get he should have been more honest. But the fact of the matter is, league of assassins or not, he IS a 10 year olf and Bruce is an adult. Bruce told him not to go out on patrol, Damian went anyway. Now, Bruce SHOULD have told him WHY not to go out on patrol (and i think he is right, he would have gone out anyway.) but at least he would have been more informed.

but i do not agree that it was Bruce's "fault" Damian was coming off as a Petulant brat.... BUT here is the Rub... ic ould ALSO see the scared child that ALfred saw in these few scans. (though the artist fudges a but in drawing Bruce, he drew Damian very well) Bruce needs to understand, if he wants Damian to grow up normally (well as normally as ANY batclan member can grow) he needs to stop looking at him as mr. little league of assassins and more like his son. honestly what Bruce needs to do is talk to Dick, and Alfred and compare notes. Also maybe have Alfred tell him when he is being a batdick.

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	no subject brooms 2011-12-12 04:49 pm UTC (link)
	Bruce, you would be so flawfree and perf if writers would just stop throwing kids at you :( You were never fit to run a daycare center. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 22 comments) (Show 22 comments)

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shadowpsykie
2011-12-12 04:54 pm UTC (link)

no you see, the writers who have the worse time writing him are the ones that don't understand that he WOULD and SHOULD be good with kids. Yes, they get into rows because of his personality, but at his heart and where and when it counts, he should be good with kids, THAT's When he is written best. When he is a good father.

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	no subject nyadnar17 2011-12-12 05:04 pm UTC (link)
	Completely agree. I mean just look at this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWHHsdE_oQg (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 3 comments) (Show 3 comments)

	no subject brooms 2011-12-12 05:07 pm UTC (link)
	awww, that was adorbs <3 but like, small moments? super cute! it's bruce having to be a father 24/7 to 35757876 ppl that is just not my thing. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

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shadowpsykie
2011-12-12 05:23 pm UTC (link)

yeah that is always my go to moment.

i just think writers don't get it. if there is anyone Bruce should be good with, it's children. yes, with his own he can be rough, but it is not for lack of caring. Another one of my favorite moments is in Young Justice, the cartoon, where Dick is troubled about something and instead of going out on patrol, he asks Dick if he wants to play a game of basket ball, or in redhood and the outlaws where he stays in witha sick jason to watch a movie, or when they have a boys night in watching a movie. Or telling Tim that the gift was nice, but that all he wants for Father's day is to spend time with him. yes, Bruce can be a dick (though i beleive Morrison did a lot to fixt that) but he cares. He's not a BAD father. i just think once he gets used to being a father he takes ona kid that is the complete opposite of the last one. it can be challenging. :D

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	no subject shadowpsykie 2011-12-12 05:24 pm UTC (link)
	you know, i didn't even have to click on that to know what moment that was :D its always my go to moment :D (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject brooms 2011-12-12 05:04 pm UTC (link)
	http://youtu.be/pWdd6_ZxX8c never cared for bruce as a father, myself. suspect i never will. just don't see the appeal. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject shadowpsykie 2011-12-12 05:24 pm UTC (link)
	yes well i know its my opinion, and that is all that matters :P i just think that people don't "get" bruce's personality sometimes. Morrison and Snyder do alot to make up for that. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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sistermagpie
2011-12-12 08:10 pm UTC (link)

So much agreement on this, and with your post above about how he was a father to all the other boys. The guy has a lot of experience being a dad under really difficult circumstances, with kids who are all different and didn't know him since birth. He's good at it--he also just has a difficult personality that makes him often clash with people personally.

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	no subject shadowpsykie 2011-12-12 08:25 pm UTC (link)
	exactly. regardless of the dynamics, he loved those kids. Let me put it this way... Dark Knight Returns, great book. interesting batman... but the way he treated his Robins... no just... no that was NOT Batman...Don't even get me started on ASBARtBW (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 5 comments) (Show 5 comments)

	no subject sistermagpie 2011-12-12 09:03 pm UTC (link)
	It always surprises me when people get confused or think it's a mistake that this guy who's such a loner has all these kids around him. Psst! That's the secret! He's scary to criminals, not scary to kids, especially his own. That's also why when they grow up they can fight with him. They love each other. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 4 comments) (Show 4 comments)

	no subject shadowpsykie 2011-12-12 09:04 pm UTC (link)
	He's scary to criminals, not scary to kids, especially his own. heh look down, that's pretty much what i just said :D (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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brooms
2011-12-12 09:14 pm UTC (link)

or think it's a mistake that this guy who's such a loner has all these kids around him.

i think it's a mistake only as far as how appealing i find him. i don't like him as the runner of a daycare center, i prefer him as a loner with a few close friends. but i know the bat fandom loves that he has 35785479043 kids.

just not my thing. :) that's why i keep trying and failing to get into bat books every time i get excited by one of the bat movies, alas.

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sistermagpie
2011-12-12 09:27 pm UTC (link)

I admit, there's a point where they keep making up characters and attaching them to Batman to sell things and they've got the guy mentoring dozens of people, which is silly. In my head canon he's got a limited number of kids he's raised.

But still, I think can understand preferring to read about him on his own. I mean, he can have the kids and have the ability to be good with kids without it being showcased in every story. The loner is the guy criminals would see, even if he's got what seems to be a psychotic kid with him.:-)

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	no subject icon_uk 2011-12-13 12:21 am UTC (link)
	Always room for a few more (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject icon_uk 2011-12-12 08:57 pm UTC (link)
	Bingo! (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject shadowpsykie 2011-12-12 09:03 pm UTC (link)
	lil terry :D but yeah. that is what he is at his core. that's why Kids are never really frightened of him. Because they know what he stands for, defending the innocent, and kids like them. Superman is cool, and yeah he's a great hero, but batman would sooner die than let harm come to any child. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject icon_uk 2011-12-12 09:03 pm UTC (link)
	I think without the kids he would be FAR from flaw free, in fact he'd be a whole lot worse. Without someone else in his life to feel responsible for and keeping him connected to the rest of the world, he tends to get cold and distant. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 5 comments) (Show 5 comments)

	no subject brooms 2011-12-12 09:06 pm UTC (link)
	friends exist. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 3 comments) (Show 3 comments)

	no subject shadowpsykie 2011-12-12 09:09 pm UTC (link)
	yes friends exist, but when he pushes away those who are pretty much his family, Barbara, the boys, alfred ect, what makes you think he would let his friends in? batman has always been at his worst/lowest when he pushes away his family (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject icon_uk 2011-12-13 12:12 am UTC (link)
	There is a difference between friends and family. (Paul Dini even has Bruce say that out loud on one occasion) (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

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brooms
2011-12-13 12:22 am UTC (link)

some people don't have any (family, I mean) and they cope all right. gosh, some pretty popular comics characters don't have any and they cope all right. at the end of the day, comics batman is what writers made him into, and instead of being the sort of guy who gets friends (and trusts them, and confides in them), he adopts and surrounds himself with a trillion kids (who i can't be arsed to give a toss about, tbhq).

i'm cool with other ppl finding this great and brill, for realsies. it's just not my thing. i prefer him solo. i love reading him solo. :) or with the league, as i found out recently.

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shadowpsykie
2011-12-12 09:07 pm UTC (link)

exactly! if you notice, the times when batman is at his worse is when he pushes everyone who cares about him away. Thats when we get Bruce Wayne Fugitive, that's when we get No Man's Land, that's when we get the BatDick (not to be confused With Dick!Bat)

there is a time and a place to play the BatGeneral, but when he gets over come in that role, that is when makes mistakes.

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	no subject eyz 2011-12-13 01:27 pm UTC (link)
	..on another note, I still miss Dick&Damian :( (Reply to this)

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