aeka: (Huntress [computer]:)
Diane Darcy ([personal profile] aeka) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily2011-12-15 03:51 pm

Second Dark Knight Rises Trailer Leaked

Well peeps, as some of you may know, the second trailer along with the prologue will debut tonight at midnight with Sherlock Holmes and Mission Impossible. However, as usual, someone was kind enough to leak it online.

The sound and visual quality isn't great, but at least this gives us an idea of what we're in for. :}



Source link: http://www.movieweb.com/movie/the-dark-knight-rises/trailer-2

Description of the trailer in case video goes bye bye: http://batman-news.com/2011/12/15/the-dark-knight-rises-trailer-2-leaked-descriptions-are-online/

Hmmm...is it just me or has Bruce and Selina dancing at a masquerade ball become a cliche now in Bat cinema?

For legality:


[identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com 2011-12-16 08:46 pm (UTC)(link)
There was plenty of reason to it.

They establish early on that the power source for Red Skull's weapons is extremely powerful. Stark cut off a small sample of it, and it blew him through the air, even though the devise was inside a reinforced chamber.

Even if he did turn it around, the land gear and other controls were damaged, so Cap crashed the plane rather than risking an explosion in a populated area.
sadoeuphemist: (Default)

[personal profile] sadoeuphemist 2011-12-17 01:08 am (UTC)(link)
The best thing Skull can think to do with his power source is send out planes and bomb (suicide bomb?) the world into submission on his own. Cap is literally the only person left alive on a plane and he does not even try, does not even consider the possibility that he can turn it around and land it. He does not have to do this in a populated area! He can try for a deserted plains or something, and radio them to pick him up afterwards. It's just dumb and empty and pointless.

[identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com 2011-12-17 01:28 am (UTC)(link)
Hey, they said the Red Skull was nuts. Razing the world with an untouchable airforce is right up his alley.

As for Cap, he'd have to fly over a populated area to reach another isolated area. Deserted plains are pretty from from the south pole, and are surrounded on all side by populated areas.

Given that he was flying a plane of highly explosive energy, it would have been stupid to try anything like that, especially given that the controls were mostly junked.

So Cap weighed one life against endangering hundreds, and made the right choice. That's far from empty.
sadoeuphemist: (Default)

[personal profile] sadoeuphemist 2011-12-17 02:20 am (UTC)(link)
It is utterly empty because the Red Skull is completely incompetent at battling Cap, and yet the dozens of raids the Commandos have done have not hindered Skull's idiotic world destroying air force in the least. Nothing that happens in the plot has any effect on the ending, everyone simply ziplines into Red Skull's office and that sets off the final fight. It's a completely arbitrary sacrifice that you can only justify through made-up logistical problems that aren't in the movie to begin with. (hint: Captain America never suffers from logistical problems. Captain America can save dozens of POWs from a self-destructing labor camp and ride home a conquering hero despite doing nothing to compensate for the self-destruction. But nope, he can't even make an attempt at landing a super hi-tech plane (that doesn't even explode when he crash land it!!! (the surface of water when traveling at that velocity is as hard as concrete)))

[identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com 2011-12-17 02:31 am (UTC)(link)
"Logistical problems that weren't in the movie to begin with."

You mean besides the controls being damaged, the energy that powers Red Skulls devises being shown to be very explosive, and the fact that the plane lost it's power source?

Cap got lucky at the end sure, but his reasoning was sound. The plane lost it's power source, meaning he had no way of knowing how much flight time he had left. So he could either crash it into the deserted area underneath him, or, as you suggest, pilot a flying bomb over various populated areas to reach another deserted area, risking hundreds of lives, just to save himself.

Yeah.
sadoeuphemist: (Default)

[personal profile] sadoeuphemist 2011-12-17 03:25 am (UTC)(link)
Why must he fly over populated areas? Why was the plane even flying without a power source? Why would the plane even have exploded so badly / such an incredible danger that Captain America has to stop it right now if there was no power source left? You are claiming this plane is far too dangerous to even fly over people without it suddenly crashing, and yet it can either automatically finish its bombing run in America / purposely crash land intact. That's not lucky, that is outright denying the facts shown in the film. You are making things up!

Here is a hint: action movies have no logistics. The Howling Commandos can zipline right into Red Skull's office because they are the good guys and he is the bad guy and they must win. You are trying to critique a scene as if it were something that happened in real life (nothing in the movie could have happened in real life). I am condemning this scene because it had no emotional impact, was poorly set-up by the rest of the plot, was a completely arbitrary resolution, i.e., I am criticizing it as a story.

[identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com 2011-12-17 03:34 am (UTC)(link)
In order...

1) He has to fly over populated areas in order to reach an airfield

2) Maybe the plane was operating on battery power? My point was that Cap had no idea how much airtime he had left, and the plane was filled with many explodey things. Better to scuttle that immediately at the cost of one life, than risking hundreds of others.

3) Like I said, Cap was lucky. The power pack only exploded when Stark exposed it to an eletrical current. That might have been the only conditions under which it would explode, or not. When lives are on the line, there is no reason not to err on the side of caution. You don't seem to realize that ignorance is a tactical nightmare and risk.

4) You harp on how the Howling Commandos zip into Red Skulls base like it was done on a whim. I think you may have missed the scene where they captured his right hand man, Armin Zola, at high cost.

Movies do and can have logistics when done right. Captain America wasn't a perfect movie, but your complaints actively ignore elements of the movie for whatever reason.
sadoeuphemist: (Default)

[personal profile] sadoeuphemist 2011-12-17 03:48 am (UTC)(link)
Your reading of the movie actively contradicts what was shown on film!!

You say: the plane's power source was out, it could have crashed at any moment, it was rickety and dangerous, etc.

Meanwhile, what Captain America says when he is actually inside the plane is that the plane is proceeding as usual, it is heading straight towards America, it will reach there quite soon because it is still going quite fast, it is still a formidable force going about its mission and that is why he must destroy it. You are trying to claim the opposite of what the film is telling you! And you have to do this because what the film is telling you is stupid and doesn't make any sense.

Why did you suddenly switch to an airfield when we were talking about a deserted plain earlier? Why would Cap and Stark still be completely ignorant about how the Red Skull's tech works when they have been capturing his munitions plants the entire movie? Why does Cap have that scene where he drives straight into the Red Skull's base, blowing up everything with his souped up motorcycle only to get captured, when everyone has a direct route right into the Red Skull's personal office? Why did Red Skull even send his right hand man out into a field mission to begin with when all he did was sit on a train and yell '"Shoot him! Shoot him! Shoot him!"???

This move has zero logistics. Trying to claim that they were "done right" is completely preposterous.

[identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com 2011-12-17 04:00 am (UTC)(link)
Actually, what I'm claiming is that Captain America simply didn't have enough information to make an informed decision, and based on information that he had up until that point, chose the best course of action.

As for knowing their technology Stark said, after examining their sub, that Hydra's technology was past anything he'd ever seen despite being one of the smartest men in the world. Since Stark said that, I'm inclined to think that Cap wouldn't be much more informed.

As for Zola, he was a scientist. Overseeing equipment and men would be right up his alley. He wasn't in the field, he was on a train en route.

As for the Howling Commandos, I thought it was kinda obvious that Cap's attack was a diversion. He drew their attention, while the Commandos came in to attack from the top, while the army outside hit them at the bottom.

Ya know, for someone so obsessed with logistics, you seem to pay little attention to them.
(deleted comment)

[identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com 2011-12-17 04:39 am (UTC)(link)
"You are simultaneously claiming that the airplane is far too derelict and dangerous to even fly over populated areas, and yet if left unchecked will fly of its own accord from the arctic ocean to America to start blowing stuff up."

No I'm not. I'm simply saying that Cap didn't know enough either way and therefor had no reason to risk an American version of the Doolittle raid. Hell, all the plane would need to do to kill thousands would be to crash into a few high rises, it was locked into New York, still armed and the only control Cap had over it was to make it go up or down (we see him uselessly working other switches).

So yeah, Cap's decision was sound.

As for the train, there's no indication that it was a trap set by Zola. You're probably thinking of the scene before that, where Red Skull is pissed that Zola can't stop Cap, to which Zola replies he is simply a scientist. In that same scene, we hear Red Skull rant about how Cap is delaying his plans for his final offensive.

Lastly, Cap's attack acts as a diversion because Red Skull's attention is focused on him. And when the allies launch their final attack, they've already got their best man inside.

That's not to say there aren't issues with the movie, but you seem to be ignoring what was shown in the movie itself for your complaints.
sadoeuphemist: (Default)

[personal profile] sadoeuphemist 2011-12-17 04:47 am (UTC)(link)
I am saying that Cap didn't think the plane was going to crash, or was too risky to fly over populated areas. He never did. This is something you made up on your own. He never mentions it, never talks about it, his sole concern is that the plane will go on its way and blow up America. Now you're making up the excuse that he could only make it go up or down (because that's what switches do, right, steer a plane?) I don't know if he could really turn it around, because guess what? He never tried!

Look, I don't remember if they were sent there to capture Zola or not, but the indication that it was a trap was that it was full of armed guards and nothing valuable on board except Zola. If they weren't after him, then yes it was a trap.

Cap's attack doesn't work as a diversion because who cares about Red Skull? Red Skull is not guarding the base. Red Skull is not in charge of sounding alarms. He is the boss, there are flunkies that do that stuff. They don't need to have their best man on the inside (captured, needing to be freed) because he can come in through Red Skull's window with the rest of them!

[identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com 2011-12-17 02:09 pm (UTC)(link)
"I don't know if he could really turn it around, because guess what? He never tried!"

Yes he did. We see him fiddling with the controls, and say things aren't good. Then he sees that the aircraft is still armed, heading to New York but currently over uninhabited land.

"Look, I don't remember if they were sent there to capture Zola or not, but the indication that it was a trap was that it was full of armed guards and nothing valuable on board except Zola. If they weren't after him, then yes it was a trap".

The presence of armed guards, during war time, means a trap? Riiiiight.

Zola was transporting equipment, and those guards were protecting him and it. Just before they jump on the train, it's established that Zola, Hydra's scientist, is in a big hurry.

As for Cap, his attack had them focused on him, at the expense of everyone else. He softened them up and isolated Hydra from their commander. Not a text book diversion, no, but the tactics are sound.

I'm curious, have you seen the actual movie, or are you working off a summary?

sadoeuphemist: (Default)

[personal profile] sadoeuphemist 2011-12-17 04:48 am (UTC)(link)
Holy christ I completely hosed up the comments here because I wasn't sure about the Zola thing, sorry.
sadoeuphemist: (Default)

[personal profile] sadoeuphemist 2011-12-17 04:17 am (UTC)(link)
You are simultaneously claiming that the airplane is far too derelict and dangerous to even fly over populated areas, and yet if left unchecked will fly of its own accord from the arctic ocean to America to start blowing stuff up. That's ridiculous. You have given up trying to explain why crashing it would be the best course of action, even from Captain America's standpoint, and are now simply claiming it as a fact. Captain America sees the plane still flies normally, the best course of action for him would be to try and land it somewhere safe.

How is it not possible for Stark to explain to Captain America, "hey you know those weird energy weapons that you come into contact with on an almost constant basis as part of your job; here's a list of things that will cause them to blow up killing everyone, try to avoid those."

How on earth would Cap's attack be a diversion when they didn't even attack at the same time? They waited until Cap was captured and the soldiers went back to their places, so it was completely and utterly useless to the point that the sole thing it did was risk Captain America's death for no good reason.

You are the one obsessed with logistics here: I am trying to argue it was a story poorly told and you keep bringing in bullshit like oh no you can't fly from the arctic to a flat landmass without passing over populated areas. You want to hear logistics? Here's what Red Skull could have done to have won the war: absolutely nothing. Just stay in the secret base the whole time and get his planes ready. Let Captain America capture all the other bases he wants, because apparently this has zero effect on Red Skull's plans. Just keep Armin Zola with you, don't do a damn thing to try and stop Captain America, because seriously, none of it matters and this whole movie is a pointless waste of time.

[identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com 2011-12-17 04:40 am (UTC)(link)
You are simultaneously claiming that the airplane is far too derelict and dangerous to even fly over populated areas, and yet if left unchecked will fly of its own accord from the arctic ocean to America to start blowing stuff up."

No I'm not. I'm simply saying that Cap didn't know enough either way and therefor had no reason to risk an American version of the Doolittle raid. Hell, all the plane would need to do to kill thousands would be to crash into a few high rises, it was locked into New York, still armed and the only control Cap had over it was to make it go up or down (we see him uselessly working other switches).

So yeah, Cap's decision was sound.

As for the train, there's no indication that it was a trap set by Zola. You're probably thinking of the scene before that, where Red Skull is pissed that Zola can't stop Cap, to which Zola replies he is simply a scientist. In that same scene, we hear Red Skull rant about how Cap is delaying his plans for his final offensive.

Lastly, Cap's attack acts as a diversion because Red Skull's attention is focused on him. And when the allies launch their final attack, they've already got their best man inside.

That's not to say there aren't issues with the movie, but you seem to be ignoring what was shown in the movie itself for your complaints.
sadoeuphemist: (Default)

[personal profile] sadoeuphemist 2011-12-17 04:30 am (UTC)(link)
Re: Armin Zola, the train thing was a trap, right? It was an ambush for Captain America. I think that's what it was, rendering Zola's presence there utterly pointless, but sources on the internet disagree and I can't remember what the point of attacking that train was to begin with.

[identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com 2011-12-17 04:41 am (UTC)(link)
"I can't remember what the point of attacking that train was to begin with."

...yet that doesn't stop you from complaining ;)

The fact that it was a Hydra train should be enough, I'd think, but before mission launch they confirmed that Zola was on the train. So they went after him.