Three Preview Pages from Redhood and the Outlaws #4

[shadowpsykie]

You know... this is fast becoming one of my favorite books. the issues number one had aside (and actually one of the moments in issue 1 does actually seem to have reprocussions in this issue, still don't like that scene however). I have actually really been enjoying this book. this issue seems to focus on Starfire.

Rocafort's art is getting better too. at least where starfire is concerned she looks fierce!... still don't know how the hell that stays on though...

preview from Ifanboy.com http://ifanboy.com/articles/exclusive-preview-red-hood-and-the-outlaws-4/







I love Star's "Oh hell no!" look here



Love her similar "Bitch Please" look here? (is this an appropriate comment? i'm speaking fabulous not derogotory here...

i even made it into an Icon



Two versions!

Comments

[v_various]

some males do a good job, but this writer is not one of them. This book is little boy-sex fantasy, for men by men.

I'm also a "a genuine lady woman", whatever you mean by that. And I find this book incredibly offensive, immature, and sexist.

I'm surprised you find the article problematic and offensive at all, my god, what could you possible have a problem with? Pretty much every pro-woman community I'm part of has found it amazing and well written. I think more people need to understand what's being said in it, sadly, so many don't....

[whitesycamore]

I'm surprised you find the article problematic and offensive at all, my god, what could you possible have a problem with?

This bit:

The answer is nothing. They just wanted to see Catwoman and Batman bang on a roof. And that is the whole problem with this false notion of "sexually liberated" female characters: These aren't those women. They're how dudes want to imagine those women would be -- what Wire creator David Simon called writing "men with t*ts." They read like men's voices coming out of women's faces. Or worse, they read like the straight girls who make out with each other at clubs, not because they enjoy making out with women but because they desperately want guys to pay attention to them.

and this bit:

Incidentally, while the Starfire here wants emotionless, casual sex with people whose names she can't remember, that's very much a departure from her previous incarnation, where she came from a culture that was primarily about love, not being available for joyless hookups with random dudes

In particular.

[v_various]

The first one is only problematic for judging a girls intentions when making out with another girl; but I don't find that applicable to your argument at all. And the last paragraph is true, how do you find it problematic?

[whitesycamore]

Also, are you new here? I don't recognise your name, but your writing style seems familiar. If so, welcome, if not then sorry, my mistake.

Anyway, could we try de-escalating this a bit? I think it's an important that SD has these kind of conversations, but hostility is unecessary.

[v_various]

Not new, I was part of the old live journal SD, the insane journal incarnation, and this one since the beginning. I'm also 30 years old, and while I know that isn't information you asked for, I also picture myself a lot older than you (ie, I've spent more time swimming in the dude-bro pool that is many-a-fandoms)

I get angry at people defending sexism, or when people think I'm wrong for being angry at/calling out said sexism. It happens to often, and I have every right to be angry about female representation in comics.

[whitesycamore]

And I have every right to have a different perspective on this particular page than you, without it being implied that I am defending sexism because I don't agree with you 100%.

[v_various]

Even if you're perspective is sexist? Even if you are defending sexism? Okay then.

No, this stuff needs to be called out.

>someone says something sexist
>call them out for sexism
>HDU call me sexist! My feelings!
>oh, it must be Tuesday.

I think this is actually on a bingo card somewhere...

[whitesycamore]

And when you were completely dismissive of the possibility that some women might have a legitimate cause to take offense at Laura Hudson's article, that was not a sexist or erasing act at all?

[v_various]

where was I dismissive? You were never clear on what you found offensive, only copy-pasted parts of the article back at me.

Even if parts where offensive (which I did point out, the "judging women's motives for making out" part of my reply) most of the article explained my POV about why women portrayed in comics like Starfire is sexist. Which I guess you don't agree with?

[whitesycamore]

Could you please explain exactly *what* you imagine my perspective to be, and why it is inherently sexist, and not just a reflection of the fact that even feminist identified women are individuals with different experiences, tastes, and sexualities to each other?

Mod Notes

[salinea]

This thread is frozen while the Mod team is discussing it.

Mod Note

[salinea]

v_various, you are right that the sexism in RH&tO should be called out, and we welcome you criticising it on those grounds in scans_daily. However women who enjoy reading this comics should not be shamed for enjoying reading it despite its flaws nor should feminism be used to bully women out of liking the "wrong" kinds of works. Far from being dismissive about sexism, whitesycamore has acknowledged the problematic aspects of RH&tO, like here ("I'm not going to deny that Red Hood is often particularly egregious - I just happen to appreciate *any* examination of sexual desire that focuses on a woman's perspective of a man rather than the other way around."). And her dislike for the Laura Hudson articles might have to do with cissexist derogative terms like "Man with tits" or slutshaming comments.

Please, try to find ways to denounce sexism and misogyny in comics without being directly derogatory to the people - and women! - who can still enjoy those works while acknowledging their flaws.
Saying: "Pretty much every pro-woman community I'm part of has found it amazing and well written. I think more people need to understand what's being said in it, sadly, so many don't...." is pretty snide, bullying people with the authority of "every pro-women community I'm a part of"; and "sadly, so many don't..." implying the only reason whitesycamore does not agree is lack of understanding rather than genuine and legitimate reasons.

"Even if you're perspective is sexist? Even if you are defending sexism?" isn't a justifyable accusation when whitesycamore hasn't actually shown herself to be sexist or done anything to defend sexism in anything she said.

Re: Mod Note

[v_various]

Nothing about that comic is coming from a female perspective, and I stand by that statement.

I apologize for any bullying behavior, that is not what I'm about. I also enjoy comics I know are terrible, and own several trades of Tarot that I like for the sexy times cheese factor. Recognizing sexism should not come across as DON'T READ THIS, I'm sorry that anything I said implied otherwise.