(no subject)

[batmanexaminer.insanejournal.com]

A few days ago we posted about the ambiguity of BFTC's conclusion.

Tony Daniel did an interview and it seems cleared up for the most part. Yes I'm plugging myself again... http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-6770-Batman-Examiner~y2009m5d22-Tony-Daniel-speaks

To make it legal...an era where not everyone Tim loved was dead..

Comments

[sir_razorback.insanejournal.com]

"I originally had Tim yelling to Jason that he was going to kill him while he was bludgeoning him with that crowbar. That was taken out at the last minute so Tim would look to have kept at least some composure. But a guy wearing his father’s clothes, impersonating him and marring everything he stood for would do it. He loved Bruce like his real father. "


Tim... crowbarred Jason?

[batmanexaminer.insanejournal.com]

Jason needs a good crowbar.


Seriously though can we just have a story where we find out he's been evil because of the Lazurus Pit and make him a member of the Batman Family again.

[slicensmile.insanejournal.com]

I hope this storyline is the beginning of rock-bottom for Jason (at freaking LAST guys) so they can come to that conclusion and get on with it.

[icon_uk.insanejournal.com]

Oh, I can see them dropping him still deeper in the dookie...

Mod Note:

[schmevil.insanejournal.com]

Uncut images can be a max of 400x300. Yours is 500x300. Please cut or resize.

[janegray.insanejournal.com]

Tony Daniel, please never write anything bat-related again.

[runespoor7.insanejournal.com]

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but this bothers me incredibly: it’s as if people found out there is no God. No consequence to their actions.

I can get behind the comparison Batman/God to the Gotham psyche, but the consequences are always there. What makes Batman "godlike" isn't the consequences, it's the omniscience.

...At least I hope that's what he means, otherwise that sentence is just full of unfortunate implications.

[icon_uk.insanejournal.com]

If someone has a faith I have no problem with them using it as an analogy in conversation. Divorcing it completely from their language might be difficult.

[runespoor7.insanejournal.com]

I don't either, but it's an awkward comparison. Mashed-up, it comes a little too close to saying that without God, people aren't kept in line because there are no consequences anymore.

[icon_uk.insanejournal.com]

But that's my point, for someone with faith (depending on the specific faith of course), that's a real consideration, a fact of life.

[runespoor7.insanejournal.com]

If your reasons are because "comic book character = god???", I think I get that too.

[majingojira.insanejournal.com]

Edit: Okay, not I'll get it right...

As an Atheist, I find the analogy quite offensive just on its own. I understand the mindset behind the statement, but it doesn't make it any less wrong or offensive.

[kagome654.insanejournal.com]

You just know that some of the more narrow minded types are watching us in fear, thinking to themselves 'If it wasn't for secular laws they'd be raping and pillaging their way across the countryside! Since they obviously don't have the fear of eternal Hellfire or any sort of moral code to keep them in check all that's keeping them from killing us is fear of legal consequences.'

Yes, I'm a ticking time bomb, if only it wasn't for the police and their laws I'd be able to live a completely immoral lifestyle.

[icon_uk.insanejournal.com]

Why? He's not asking you to endorse his view, simply putting it into a comparable context for how HE viewed it.

It's an analogy, not an intervention.

[kingrockwell]

As offensive as it is when the religious accuse of us nihilism, if those same people who invest all of their morals in religion suddenly found their god dead it would be a different matter.

It's not so much a comment against people who have no god as a comment on how people with a god sometimes attribute everything to it.

[icon_uk.insanejournal.com]

With the greatest respect to a fellow poster, and wishing you well with your website, is it fair to post a link to your site for this, when it's a Newsarama interview and you don't actually add anything to it?

[batmanexaminer.insanejournal.com]

The article fully credits Newsarama and links to the article. I'm not the only Batman site that has done their own 'retelling' of said article.

Their is some commentary by me, otherwise it's just a Newsarama highlights.

[freddylloyd.insanejournal.com]

I'm gonna second icon_uk. I appreciated hearing about the Newsarama interview, but I wish the posting here had included links to both that page and your column. I also enjoy your columns with more original commentary.

[yaseen101.insanejournal.com]

IMO,Battle for the cowl was nothing more than some editorially mandated fiat. Tony Daniel has literally no experience as a writer, aside from a few projects here and there he was merely the artist on Morrison's run on Batman. He was going about his day when Didio called him and told him that he was writing Battle for the Cowl. I can only imagine his reaction. Which leads to a lot of question especially since the call was on Didio's part. Moreover I loved his art on Morrison's run, he was the type of artist that seem to work hard to improve his craft and he improved leaps and bounds over the course of the title. However, I hated his art on BftC, the panels were sloppy, the faces were muddled, the poses were unrealistic, it was just not up to the standard to what I usually expect from Daniel. The story itself was nothing impressive, it was as thin as tissue paper, we know Dick was going to become Batman, we know Tim was going to become Red Robin and we know that Damien was going to become Red Robin. So what was the need for a big event anyway. Couldn't they just finish the entire thing in Batman itself? No DC just needed a quick buck, which is understandable given the economy buy seriously Tony Daniel?

To summarize, Tony Daniel artist> Tony Daniel and Didio <anyone else except Queseda. Although I do wonder what would have happened if Morrison wrote BftC. However, with all said and done I'm still looking forward to Red Robin, I liked Chris Yost's writing in one of the BftC tie ins, Streets of Gotham, Gotham Sirens and Batman & Robin.

[icon_uk.insanejournal.com]

I agree that this was ultimately an utterly pointless story, since nothing remotely unexpected came out of it, aside from (shudder) "Jason's got a sec-ret! Jason's got a sec-ret!"

I can easily imagine that Tony Daniel has expressed an interest in doing some writing to DC editorial in the past (as artists do, look at Perez and Davis to name but two), IIRC Morrison tends to interact a lot with his artists when he's writing, so Daniel would have been more in the loop than most. It's entirely possible (though not known of course) that he astounded Morrison, DiDio and others in charge of DC with his love and awareness of the characters when he was involved in RIP.

So this was viewed as being suitable story for that, since the beginning and end were already known and the writer had been involved in the story that led into this. A gamble, but one I can speculate a logical reason for, not necessarily a wise one, but a logical one.

To be honest, and a fan of most of his work though I am, I would have had reservations about Morrison writing BftC, the way I have about him writing Dick in anything, since he showed NO feel for the character whatsoever throughout RIP. Dick was a cipher the whole time. I'm hoping this will change for "Batman and Robin"

[yaseen101.insanejournal.com]

It's Morrison and Quietly, I will buy it as long as it's on All Star Superman level of quality. I think DC was looking for a way to exploit Tony's potential, afterall he was a hardworker and that showed through most of his work. I just think that he got the wrong project. It would have been better if he did a tie in instead and let a more experienced writer handle the writing chores. As for Morrison I feel that he has difficulty writing characters that he doesn't get, like Wonderwoman for example so he relegates them to the side and gives them their moment to shine at the end of the story, ala the ending of FC and RIP. and with an entire mini concentrating on Dick becoming Batman, there is no way he could have relegated Dick to a side.

[batcookies.insanejournal.com]

I agree that this was ultimately an utterly pointless story, since nothing remotely unexpected came out of it, aside from (shudder) "Jason's got a sec-ret! Jason's got a sec-ret!"

Well, that and Orpheus is back from the dead and pretending to be the man that supposedly killed him.

[freddylloyd.insanejournal.com]

Tony Daniel has literally no experience as a writer, aside from a few projects here and there he was merely the artist on Morrison's run on Batman. He was going about his day when Didio called him and told him that he was writing Battle for the Cowl. I can only imagine his reaction.

In this interview Daniel said, "I plotted and scripted everything from scratch. That’s why they chose me to write it, they liked what I had in mind." Clearly he recalled sharing ideas with the bosses before he got the job.

Furthermore, in his previous Newsarama interview (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/081222-tony-daniel-battle-cowl.html), Daniel talked about presenting ideas to editor Mike Marts in conversation, repeating his interest in an email, speaking to DiDio by phone two days later, and finally sending in a first draft before he was sure of the assignment.

We don't have to "imagine [Daniel's] reaction." He laid out the sequence of events for us. I don't defend the result, but I think it's worthwhile starting from the information that's available.

It's still obvious that Daniel wasn't DC's first choice, and the company was coming up against a deadline and had to find someone to crank this baby out. Your observations about sloppy artwork might imply that Daniel was spreading himself too thin, or caught in too tight a schedule.

[yaseen101.insanejournal.com]

You make a good point and I admit I got a little too eccentric. I guess I am a bit too jaded by this whole thing.