scans_daily: Catwoman #4

Diane Darcy (

aeka) wrote in

scans_daily,
@ 2011-12-28 07:32 pm UTC

Entry tags:

char: catwoman/selina kyle, creator: guillem march, creator: judd winick, title: catwoman

Catwoman #4

We learn a little bit more about Selina's past and are introduced to more people in her life. At best it appears as though the Frank Miller prostitute origin has been retconned out of continuity. So I guess one point for Winick?

Reload Image

Heh, I don't know about anyone else, but I thought Selina looked a bit like Sailor Star Fighter in those last few panels.

Anyway, from the last few pages of Catwoman #4, an interview with the boys behind this book:

1. What do you love about writing/drawing these characters?

Judd: Catwoman is brilliant, damaged, sophisticated, crass, and a born survivor who also seems at times to have a death wish. The complexities leap her.

Guillem: I like lonely characters so I can focus on the body language, facial expressions, how he or she interacts with the background.

2. What is your favourite thing about your part in the New 52?

Guillem: It will be long remembered and I'm incredibly happy I got the chance to be a part of it. I feel I'm adding something to the character, putting a bit of my own vision of Catwoman in the book.

Judd: The fresh stories we get to tell, how we get to hit the ground running, and how we can welcome new readers. All the stories are open to EVERYONE.

3. Can you tease the villains they will be fighting in upcoming issues?

Judd: Well, Catwoman's a criminal, so her adversaries cross a few spectrums. She'll have a run-in with an ugly mobster named BONE, have a budding romance with a member of the Gotham Police Department, and OH YEAH--there's Batman!

Guillem: See Judd's answer. I just want some of the villains we have in the book to stay for a long time because they're great. I love Bone.

4. What new things are you doing with these characters?

Judd: We are getting back to the core of Selina Kyle. She is, first and foremost, a thief. She steals not to survive, but because she digs it.

5. How will you shock readers?

Guillem: Every issue I've drawn to date has a very strong surprise or cliffhanger at the end. I'm always shocked when I read Judd's scripts.

Judd: As of Catwoman #1, pardon the pun, but the cat's out of the bag on one of our MAJOR surprises--the Catwoman/Batman romance.

6. What is your favourite page in the first few issues and why?

Judd: Am I allowed to say ALL of them? If I HAVE to choose, it's page 3 of the first issue. Catwoman crashing out her window in a hail of gunfire, half in her costume, whip in one hand, cat carrier in the other. This says EVERYTHING about our book and Catwoman. Dangerous, sexy, and unexpected.

Guillem: Issue #1, page1. All started there. I hope it takes a long time to finish.

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	no subject q99 2011-12-29 02:11 am UTC (link)
	I doubt the 'only' one... but most of her other origins click with me and that one doesn't. I was introduced to her in B:tAS and that definitely played a role. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 22 comments) (Show 22 comments)

	no subject salinea 2011-12-29 02:19 am UTC (link)
	What are the other back-stories you find work better? (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 21 comments) (Show 21 comments)

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q99
2011-12-29 02:47 am UTC (link)

Earth-2 works for me well. She's a socialite (so in the same circles as Bruce Wayne, with the parallels there) in an abusive relation, leaves him and breaks into his vault to steal his valuable jewels as she goes, and finds she's gained a taste for the experience.

Or the Batman Returns one, where she's a loyal corporate type, finds a nasty secret from her boss, is betrayed and almost killed by him, and something snaps and she embraces a mentality almost 180 from her old, being an untethered and free like her cats.

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	no subject salinea 2011-12-29 03:00 am UTC (link)
	I remember the movie, yes, I don't think I like this one very much. The Earth-2 sounds... kind of so-so, but okay enough. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

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q99
2011-12-29 03:16 am UTC (link)

The thing I like about the E-2 one is: One, she's a thrillseeker. She doesn't steal money because she needed it or someone else needs it (though once she has it, sure, she'll help people with it), but because of the challenge and excitement of the theft. Two, her origin is directly tied into why she's a *thief*. The Miller one explains why she can fight, but it's like she just kinda fell into becoming the world's greatest thief, the origin feels like she should've become female Daredevil who patrolled one area of the city and fights crime rather than traveling the world and stealing diamonds. Finally, the social thing, lets her trade barbs with Bruce before they dance as Bat and Cat, which is something I always loved.

I'm always a fan of Bat villains being some sort of parallel/mirror to Batman too. Joker is chaos to Batman's law. Two-Face is the dichotomy of Bruce and Batman. And Catwoman (at least to start with in her villain days) is someone who has the freedom, excitement, and skills of being a masked vigilante but doing so purely for the thrill of it rather than to protect others.

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aeka
2011-12-29 02:47 am UTC (link)

To be honest, I don't think her past was explored all that much in the pre-Crisis continuity. On Earth-2 she was originally a house wife who left her abusive husband and became a jewel thief after she found the success of stealing back her jewellery from her husband's vault very thrilling. Prior to that she fabricated the story about being flight attendent who became Catwoman due to amnesia in order to start her life over. I actually posted that story a while back, which is also one of my favourites from the pre-Crisis continuity.

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q99
2011-12-29 02:55 am UTC (link)

One thing I like about the E-2 one is it clearly explains why she's a *thief*, since the cat burglar thing is such a large part of the concept.

The Miller origin, I get something of a disconnect.

"Hard life... I must train to protect myself and my friends... oh, there's Batman, what an inspiration... thief!"

Why she becomes a mask is obvious, but why she becomes the world's greatest jewel thief less-so.

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aeka
2011-12-29 03:03 am UTC (link)

I also liked that in the Earth-2 origin, her stealing her abusive husband's material wealth was treated as a triumph over him since that was the only loss he understood. It's kind of like the story where Selina steals ALL of Hush's money in response to him cutting out her heart to get back at Bruce. It was very, very sweet revenge. ♥

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	no subject q99 2011-12-29 03:06 am UTC (link)
	Exactly! (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject jlbarnett 2011-12-29 11:41 am UTC (link)
	well there's only so many reasons to do that sort of stuff. SHe's not a vigilante so good guy is out. She's not amurderer etc. so... (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 9 comments) (Show 9 comments)

	no subject q99 2011-12-29 02:18 pm UTC (link)
	Still, it feels like I'm missing a step in how she became a career high-end thief. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 8 comments) (Show 8 comments)

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sistermagpie
2011-12-29 08:18 pm UTC (link)

Agreed. A thief is a specific thing. Not that a person can't be a sex worker and a thief or one and then the other. But I like my Catwoman origins to be specifically based on theft because that's her raison d'etre. With Frank Miller it's hard for me not to just think that she's a sex worker because she's a woman character and a thief because even he knew he had to get her back to Catwoman=Catburglar.

I love the mirror to Bruce Wayne being that his thrills are associated with this mission to protect and law and order and helping people keep what's valuable to them when Selina's is taking what *she* wants and causing chaos. That's why she's a great foil to him, imo. A past as a dominatrix just brings nothing to her to me--she's not even dominating as a criminal. She's a cat burglar, in and out and nobody can touch her, with a quick scratch of the claws if trapped so she can get away. It's a pretty pure archetype and I think that's one reason she's so iconic.

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	no subject q99 2011-12-30 01:10 am UTC (link)
	Well said. I could see the origin fitting with some character (Mia-Speedy's a sex worker and I love her), but Catwoman doesn't care about dominating and doesn't seem to line up with the origin much. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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whitesycamore
2011-12-30 03:24 pm UTC (link)

With Frank Miller it's hard for me not to just think that she's a sex worker because she's a woman character

This. I would personally expand that far beyond Frank Miller and his fixation on sex workers, and say that almost all heroines with sexually abusive backstories have one just because they're woman characters, and because superhero comics are a misogynistic genre.

...But then I think about reality, and how so many real women have sexually abusive pasts essentially *because* they are women, and how we live in a misogynistic world. And then my head explodes with anger and confusion.

tl;dr: I'm not sure what the right way to portray sex work, and sexual abuse, and violence against women in comics is, but I'm certain that Frank Miller's way is NOT it.

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aeka
2011-12-30 04:59 pm UTC (link)

...But then I think about reality, and how so many real women have sexually abusive pasts essentially *because* they are women, and how we live in a misogynistic world. And then my head explodes with anger and confusion.

This. I actually had this conversation with my friend yesterday, and I think the thing I find most alarming is how many people--women included--accept this as normal. I can't decide if this is due to a lack of awareness, or the belief that 'nothing can be done about it,' or both.

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whitesycamore
2011-12-30 05:52 pm UTC (link)

Yeah. And because of that I can almost - sort of - understand the perspective that, because sexual violence is common against women in real life, it's realistic for sexual violence to be commonplace in comics.

I'll even admit that I experience a bit of cognitive dissonance when I'm rolling my eyes at some superheroine's Tragic Backstory, and then I remember that hey, I'm a woman who was sexually abused, and also there was that one time when I used to be a sex worker.

I think the difference is that superhero comics are supposed to be escapist fiction. Seeing a female character have her backstory determined by her vagina and all the nasty stuff that can happen to it doesn't feel very fun and escapist to me. Some people argue that it's empowering to show a woman *overcoming* that kind of past, but tbh most of the time it seems like she only had that backstory in the first place because some dude thought it was suitably gritty and titillating.

I just can't accept the "but it's realistic!" argument because I don't believe that male writers give heroines these backstories in order to make any kind of statement about misogyny. It feels more like they just think it's... sexy. :/

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aeka
2011-12-30 06:30 pm UTC (link)

Yeah one of the things I noticed right away about superhero comics from the post-Crisis era in particular, is that writers attempted to depart from the 'escapist' aspect of comics by calling attention to real world issues and making the characters more psychologically complex in order to make the stories 'feel more real and relevant.' Admittedly this wasn't always executed successfully.

I do agree that many of these tragic backstories for female characters seem to be done purely for shock value and 'edge' rather than to make any real comment about misogyny. When comics DO attempt to call attention to serious issues, most of the time they skim the surface on the problem at hand and hardly ever comment on pervasiveness of the attitudes behind them.

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	no subject benicio127 2011-12-31 12:46 am UTC (link)
	THIS comment~! (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

no subject

benicio127
2011-12-31 03:02 am UTC (link)

tl;dr: I'm not sure what the right way to portray sex work, and sexual abuse, and violence against women in comics is, but I'm certain that Frank Miller's way is NOT it.

What I can't believe you don't like Frank Miller's women... I mean c'mon it's not like his ASSBAR Wondy isn't a strawfeminist or anything...

I love it when people tell me that she's a *strong* female character. I'm like but! but! she's actually kind of stereotype of the evil feminist! She hates men, so that's how you know she's a real feminist.

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	no subject schmevil 2011-12-30 10:29 pm UTC (link)
	I've always liked the idea that we might not know her actual origin. Selina just making up stories about her origin, rather than telling the truth. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 3 comments) (Show 3 comments)

	no subject salinea 2011-12-30 10:38 pm UTC (link)
	Interesting. But isn't that already The Joker's shtick? (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

	no subject aeka 2011-12-30 10:43 pm UTC (link)
	I came down here just to say that, lol. In all fairness though, she's been known to lie about her past as well so it wouldn't be out of character for her to do so when it's convenient. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject salinea 2011-12-30 10:48 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, it definitely fits her :) (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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