Batgirl #5

[aeka]

The secret to Barbara's cure revealed.




I'd properly comment on the questionable accuracy of a simple neural transplant being the solution to completely curing Babs' paralysis (since this is my area of expertise) if I wasn't so exhausted. But let me begin by saying that action potential is a hell of a lot more complicated than that. And even if story wise, nerves were used to "bypass" the damaged part of the spinal cord and "rewire the neural circuitry" to bring action potential back to the rest of the nerves below the damaged portion of the spinal cord, the impulse wouldn't still be strong enough to send strong enough signals from the efferent neurones to induce motor response, or at least NOT to the degree of being able to be fully walk again as though no injury ever took place like Babs is doing in the story, not even after a year of physical therapy.

Long story short, think of this in terms of repairing the cord to your head phones so that you can listen to music again. Think of the mp3 player as the "brain" that transmits the electrical signal that allows you to hear the sound at the end of your headphones. Everyone knows that when you take a pair of scissors and you cut the cord in half, the mp3 player still transmits the signal but it stops that the cut and the other end no longer receives the signal. But when you put the two ends together again, it is *possible* to still get sound again, but you will no longer get the same clear sound you had before, and would hear more static instead. That's pretty much how spinal injuries induce paralysis and influence the extent of recovery. So, even if you do regain some neural function, it will not be to the same degree as before.

The injury itself "blocks" the electrical signal from brain to the affected rest of the body following the injury and action potential doesn't happen. Now depending on the gravity of the injury to the spinal cord, it is still possible to retain some somatic sensory function and lose motor function, and vice versa. However, in The Killing Joke--storywise--had the Joker doctor a bullet that would completely shatter her spine, and by that note Babs' should have lost function in both her afferent and efferent neurones (the neurones responsible for sensory and motor function respectively) of the affected spinal area because they would no longer be able to receive or transmit any signal to and from the brain.

I'd go into more details, but I'd probably confuse everyone.

Comments

[thanekos]

Nice scarf on the Whittaker man in front; he looks quite the gunsel.

And neural implant, eh? Hopefully it doesn't get short-circuited in something down the road.

[thosefew]

Here's hoping they somehow link it to Midnighter's neural implant.

[superfangirl1]

That would be really awesome.

[darkknightjrk]

I get what you're saying, but a few things that aren't mentioned in this page:

1. Babs mentions in #3 that if she pushes too hard, what we now know is the neural implant could crap out, so while what Babs accomplished is a bit of a stretch, it isn't a complete cure-all.

2. From an interview with Newsarama, Gail says that we'll get more backstory about the Clinic and her experience there.

3. Also from that interview, Gail says that Babs' spine "was not severed." So either she's taking a slight reinterpretation of that scene ("shattered" has a different meaning than "severed") or she's doing a mild retcon to that end of The Killing Joke.

[aeka]

My point was not on whether or not Barbara's recovery was a complete cure. My point was that any slight damage to a neuron diminishes its functionality. Therefore, the greater the neural damage, the greater the loss of functionality, and the lesser the damage, you'll still have functionality but it will be impaired functionality.

So even if a person regains somatic sensory or even motor functioning from nerve implants, the recovery would still not be to the extent of 'going back to the way things were' for lack of better phrasing. For that to happen, you need completely undamaged neurons for full functionality. Action potential is very much dependent on fully intact healthy neurons for greater functionality and damage to a neuron (even a slight one) makes it less fully functional.

[rordulum]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind at all if The Killing Joke is retconned completely. Just so I would never have to see Babs have another flashback to it.

But while I'd much rather Steph still be Batgirl, I don't mind some slightly ludicrous cure allowing Babs to be out there swinging about again.

Of all the silliness of the DCnU, Batgirl is one of the better books in their New 52.

[aeka]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind at all if The Killing Joke is retconned completely...I don't mind some slightly ludicrous cure allowing Babs to be out there swinging about again.

Same here. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the real-world approach Gail was going for, but her explanation of it took a simple neural implant to restore Barbara's full mobility to the extent as though she never had a spinal injury in the first place...it just doesn't reflect reality. In a way that's further adding insult to injury (no pun intended) since that's not what is typically seen with patients recovering from a spinal injury, especially not ones that severed their spinal cord.

It's enough to say it's not impossible to regain some degree of mobility following a spinal injury after a series of surgeries and physical therapy. But it's not as simple as one surgery did the trick and voila! Babs' is back to jumping on rooftops.

[shadowpsykie]

i still don't think we know ALL the details. It might be more than a "simple" neural implant. from gail's interview (that i posted earlier) i think that there is still more to come....

[protogarrett]

Comics. Better this than magic, SCIENCE!!!!, or cloned Barbara who thinks she is the real Barbara while Oracle is locked in a closet.

Can you see the future

[blue_bolt]

When we first saw Babs back in action I had only one thought - Ganger!

No seriously, the real Babs is in some high-tech machine like Bruce Willis in Surrogates (awful movie, recommend you don't see it).

So eventually Babs will get shot or something look down and realize -"Oh, I'm not here." And that will be probably around at least 12 issues in.

[dr_archeville]

So it is a "real world cure" (which is what Babs was wanting, "don't cure me unless you can cure everyone").... but it's also a comic book super-exaggeration of the effect. Like how Gamma bombs and Super Soldier Serums and Powered Armor are exaggerations of existing things.

[aeka]

I know it's comics. Doesn't change the fact that this is a subject that's important to me (and one that I care about) since it falls in with my line of work.

[shadowpsykie]

Gail also mentions taht she has gotten training so maybe this new neural implant along with her therapy AND training, helped her get back to... 95%

[aeka]

Training in what?

[shadowpsykie]

in her interview Gail says:
Simone: Well, there's an unexpected date, some new neighbors of interest, including one who wants to be Batgirl, new villains, the return of an old one, the answers to the Oracle question, the back-story about her return to mobility, Batman, Bruce Wayne, Arkham, mom, a really unfortunate date, a BOP friend, pirates, a JLA guest star, the worst family reunion ever, muffins, the secret of her martial arts training, the answer to what really happened immediately after she was shot in the Killing Joke. And we're just getting warmed up.

so there is more that we as readers still do not know. We know that the implant is the key to her being able to walk again. But we don't know what ELSE is. that's my point.

[aeka]

Oh you meant *Babs* had training. I thought you were talking about Gail having been personally trained in the field.

Still, I stand by what I said to the posters above. Also given the condensed five year timeline, three years paralysis, and going back to fighting crime a year after her cure doesn't sound like a realistic timeline to me for the full recovery Barbara got. I don't fault Simone on the condensed timeline since that's an editorial decision not hers, but I'm not holding my breath that the explanation will be anymore realistic.

I'll do more research on the topic of nerve regeneration, but from what I know of the neuroscience research thus far, results on the nerve regenerating implant is still pending and still in the experimental stage.

[airawyn]

Huh. I like hearing about this from an expert's POV, so thanks. I'm opposed to the change no matter how realistic the tech (I've written about my reasons here), but it's interesting to see that the "it could be done in the real world" excuse doesn't really fly, either.

[aeka]

Well I don't consider myself an expert just yet since I'm just getting started, but I am sufficiently knowledgeable in the subject matter to understand more or less how the nervous system works (and I say more or less cause even current researchers learn new things everyday about neural circuitry and brain function).

In theory (and this is the basis for a lot research done on spinal cord injury) if scientists can find a way to regenerate damaged neurons, it *is* possible to restore mobility and sensory function in affected patients. Now as to whether or not a neural implant can actually fully *cure* para/quadriplegia, that's another story entirely, cause like I said it's not that simple depending on the extent of the injury. This is also not even getting into other health problems that arise a result of of SCI.

At best, the best proof that stimulating unstimulated nerves can cure something that was originally incurable is the cochlear implant, which is essentially an "artificial ear" that bypasses the middle ear and stimulates the cochlea directly, thus effectively curing deafness. Other research on neural regeneration has also included being able to restore sight to a mouse whose blindness resulted from damage to the optic nerve. However, considering that the CNS is the control centre of the entire nervous system and of all bodily function, it's understandably trickier to treat. A lot of times, not even doctors can fully predict the extent of a person's recovery following a spinal cord injury for that reason. Some patients are lucky enough to regain mobility following even a cervical spinal injury (albeit often with assistance of a cane or a walker) and others are not so lucky.

I'll be able to properly comment on the accuracy of Barbara's cure once we learn more of the details of her recovery, but given the timeline and what is known so far, it's already bordering on "magic science" as someone else already pointed out. I did read your article on Tumblr a while back and I actually thought it was very inspiring that Barbara was a positive influence in your life for dealing with depression. I do agree as someone who suffers from it as well that it can severely impair functioning in everyday tasks, and even research supports that a psychiatric disorder like depression can lead to other physiological disorders as well.

[mrstatham]

If the 'neighbours of interest' include Misfit, that would be the blandest thing ever. The character sucked in BOP and she'd suck now.

[dr_archeville]

I meant no disrespect! Kudos to you for work in the matter!

And, yes, I do know that people who work in certain fields -- especially medical/scientific ones -- find it difficult to read or watch certain forms of media because of how often their work is depicted incorrectly. One of my favorite blogs on the matter is Polite Dissent, wherein a medical doctor (working in a Family Practice) reviews assorted medical depictions in comics, and where they go wrong (and sometimes where they go right).

[aeka]

Oooh, thanks for the link. I'll definitely check it out. Pretty much with any media there's always going to be depictions where you can tell who did their research and who didn't. In one Batman comic that I saw a while back for example showed Batman was examining on autopsy from the batcave, and two things I noticed right away that were wrong were (a) the shape of the incision and (b) the lack of lighting in the morgue. In real life if you're trying to find a cause of death, you don't want to miss a single detail and is extremely important you have plenty of light for exactly that reason. I wonder if there's an article on that on the site you linked me.

[lieut_kettch]

Hmmm... My guess is you're either in neurology, neurophysiology/neuroanatomy or PM&R.

[mullon]

It should have been physical therapy.

[shadowpsykie]

i;m sure that is part of it.

[mullon]

But it's still backed by magic science.

[lieut_kettch]

The implant could be a device that amplifies already existing, but weak (below threshold) signals. Pre-Flashpoint, Babs seemed to be an incomplete SCI-- no evidence of catheters or urine bags, able to have what seems like fulfilling sex with Dick Grayson shortly after her injury, and either retaining or regaining some movement in her toes.

[aeka]

The way I know it pre-flashpoint Babs had her spine completely severed by the bullet, so by that account all afferent and efferent neural activity would be impaired in the affected areas. However, the lack of catheters and uterine bags can be easily explained by which lumbar vertebrae got shattered since the nerves from the PNS that control those parts her body may not be extending from the region where she was shot. Then again, it can also be due to lack of research on the writers' parts.

[lieut_kettch]

I dunno. The preservation of active toe flexion and pudendal sensation plus the lack of neurogenic bladder or bowel symptoms seem to point to sacral sparing and an incomplete SCI.

Maybe it was completely severed at first, but Booster's intervention managed to deflect the bullet's trajectory such that it missed her spine, and the SCI was due to hydrostatic shock damage?

Or maybe it's all just comic book SCIENCE!!!!*cue Thomas Dolby music*

[benicio127]

I only got a chance to skim through this book last night, but I noticed the reporters and newspaper articles talking about Babs. What caused some concern is the articles address Babs as Batgirl as though Batgirl is a *new* phenomenon: essentially, saying 'Woman dresses up like Batman!' It might be a throw-away bit, but reporters are generally pretty good at remembering previous events... so if Babs had been Batgirl previously, as had Cass and Steph, shouldn't the headlines read 'New Batgirl sighted' or 'Batgirl out on the streets again'.

There are just these little things that are giving me cause for concern that Cass and Steph didn't exist as Batgirl in the new DCU. (Particularly since Babs has made absolutely no mention of them at this point nor of being Oracle...)

[runespoor]

It doesn't say much about Cass: she's up there above Helena and Bruce in the stealth department. More worrying about Steph. Though if the newspapers don't mention Batwoman either...

Basically it sounds like they're trying to soft-retcon Cass and Steph as Batgirl away, erase Oracle as much as possible. *forever bitter* Though hey, I guess it's less offensive than "Real Batgirl is back".

[filthysize]

You mean the articles Detective McKenna was looking at? I believe those were old articles from her first time as Batgirl, before the injury. McKenna's obsessed with Batgirl and has been brushing up on her history.

[eyz]

They should have gone with the Calculator sotryline/technovirus/thingie from those last Birds of Prey issue (before the cancellation/return of the book/cancellation/New 52)

Or better yet, no reboot of the entire DCU!!! >__