scans_daily: Linkara and Co. Review the Wonder Woman 2011

espanolbot (

espanolbot) wrote in

scans_daily,
@ 2012-01-16 01:54 pm UTC

Current music:	Spring Awakening
Entry tags:	char: wonder woman/diana of themyscira, medium: video, title: justice league, title: wonder woman

Linkara and Co. Review the Wonder Woman 2011

Notes: Wonder Woman saying "tits" and "ass" is just wrong, though she's also a psychopath that ignores the law at every turn and openly threatens to murder people as well so... Also Abu Ghraib is used as a positive descriptive phrase for Wonder Woman.

I know that I've already covered my dislike of the Wonder Woman pilot in my review of 2011, but... honestly? I had no idea that the thing was going to be THIS bad? Yeesh.

For legality, what Wonder Woman should actually be portrayed, from Justice League.

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You have a lasso of truth, remember?

benuben
2012-01-16 03:38 pm UTC (link)

I have already watched the review by youtube user raporfest (biggest Wonder Woman fan ever), who pretty much said everything they said. So i wasnt really suprised or shocked by what I saw.

Just one thing: The main power of Lasso of Truth is, that it makes you, you know, tell the truth. And she had it with her whole time. So... WHY COULDNT SHE JUST USE IT, INSTEAD OF TORTURING THE GUY!!!!??!?

The whole point of the scene was, that she needed information to save the kids. Thats also the most comon defence used for torture. But thats not whats hapening here! She doesnt need to torture him. She isnt doing hard decision to save lifes, she is just a psycho.

And if the lasso cant do that in this series, then it means, they removed an iconic part of the character, just so they could make her torture people. If thats so, then one simple question: Why?

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	Re: You have a lasso of truth, remember? espanolbot 2012-01-16 03:48 pm UTC (link)
	Well they turned Wonder Woman into something approximating a Mark Millar character, forgetting that she has a Lasso of Truth isn't really suprising. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	Re: You have a lasso of truth, remember? big_daddy_d 2012-01-17 12:32 am UTC (link)
	You should've seen my reaction to that scene. IT was, ".....YOU HAVE THE FUCKING LASSO RIGHT THERE!!!" Seriously, talk about missing the point. That is blatant proof that the producers know shit about the source material. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	Re: You have a lasso of truth, remember? dr_archeville 2012-01-17 05:49 pm UTC (link)
	I don't think this version of her lasso is a Lasso of Truth, it's just a Lasso of Shooting Out Quickly and Reeling People In. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 5 comments) (Show 5 comments)

	Re: You have a lasso of truth, remember? biod 2012-01-17 09:14 pm UTC (link)
	It's explicitly called the Lasso of Truth by the show. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 3 comments) (Show 3 comments)

	Re: You have a lasso of truth, remember? dr_archeville 2012-01-17 09:25 pm UTC (link)
	They can call it a Lasso of Truth all they want, but if they never show her using it to magically compel people to tell the truth, is it really a Lasso of Truth? (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

	Re: You have a lasso of truth, remember? espanolbot 2012-01-17 09:27 pm UTC (link)
	She called it that because she uses it to capture people before beating the truth out of them? Like those spikes they put in front of speeding vehicles could be called "Spikes of Car Stopping"? shrug (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	Re: You have a lasso of truth, remember? dr_archeville 2012-01-17 09:39 pm UTC (link)
	Ah, the Chair Leg of Truth! (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	Re: You have a lasso of truth, remember? benuben 2012-01-18 08:35 pm UTC (link)
	Already said, whats my argument, if thats the case. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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mrstatham
2012-01-16 03:40 pm UTC (link)

I disagree that Johns and Lee's interpretation is something to aspire to - The notion that a woman of Mediterranean origins (close enough to Italy?) not knowing what something like ice cream is.. It's a joke. It's basically taking her back to the stuff that everyone complained about during Picoult's run, where she didn't know how to operate anything. And the stilted dialogue from her - it's like Johns is trying to write her as vaguely foreign and like a princess, somehow, and it sucks.

That said, the TV Pilot's nothing to shout about either, but I would've liked it if they had actually touched on, you know, the mess Straczynski left behind and then the largely positive reaction to Azzarello, given there was more to WW in 2011 than a shitty TV Pilot - although it's a shame that the woman they got to play Diana probably never will again, since she actually fits fairly well.

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espanolbot
2012-01-16 03:44 pm UTC (link)

Err... actually Paradise Island is in the Carribbean, several thousand years removed from modern things, and it's implied that in the DCnU she's pretty much being kept in the psuedo-custody of the US military so, no, she might not actually know what ice cream is. This is pretty much the first time she's interacted with regular people.

Plus the stilted dialogue is because she' only just arrived in "Man's World".

I think that it's oddly sweet, like she's a DnD character that has appeared in modern day Washington and is asking the town's folk if there are monsters to slay.

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mrstatham
2012-01-16 03:51 pm UTC (link)

I had no idea when it came to Paradise Island, but just assumed that, y'know, they worship Greek Gods, Diana's often described as Mediterranean, that it'd actually be a bit closer to Greece. But whatever. The scene still strikes me as the kind of stuff Picoult got moaned at over.

I still prefer Azz's take over Johns, who to me is still failing to prove that he knows how to write anything other than bland everymen or villains like Sinestro.

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espanolbot
2012-01-16 03:55 pm UTC (link)

Paradise Island's kind of been off the cost of the US (around the same distance as Cuba), but hidden by magic. Has been so for quite some time now, and was an important plot point in the Greg Rucka run way back when.

And, again, this is right at the beginning of Diana's superheroing career, she presumably evolved into the Azz version further along the line.

Also, disappointing that it may be, stil is STILL the best job Johns has done with her in any of his comic, Infinite Crisis included.

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	no subject fifthie 2012-01-17 01:11 am UTC (link)
	[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<ialso,>') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.] <iAlso, disappointing that it may be, stil is STILL the best job Johns has done with her in any of his comic, Infinite Crisis included.</i> Talk about damning with faint praise. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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fredneil.livejournal.com
2012-01-16 03:57 pm UTC (link)

At seven minutes, I asked myself, "Why am I watching this, rather than Lynda Carter fighting nazis?" At ten minutes, I came up with an answer, "I'm not." That series might not have been serious superhero drama or have been faithful to the source material, but the people behind it understood Wonder Woman a lot better than the people behind this. I guess "leave the vengeance to me" is a more commercial concept than "stop a war with love" in the 21st century.

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	no subject benuben 2012-01-16 04:20 pm UTC (link)
	You know whats really sad? Based on what Lynda Carter wrote in WW 600, I think she understands Diana far more, than half of the people, who have been actualy writing Wonder Woman for past 6 years. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 6 comments) (Show 6 comments)

	no subject fredneil.livejournal.com 2012-01-16 04:49 pm UTC (link)
	I wouldn't be surprised, nor would I be surprised if you had said "decades" instead of "years." What did she say? (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

	no subject benuben 2012-01-17 08:55 pm UTC (link)
	http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2010/06/28/wonder-woman-can-save-the-world-by-lynda-carter/ (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject fredneil.livejournal.com 2012-01-17 11:11 pm UTC (link)
	That was great. Can we put her in charge of the next attempt at a series, or a movie, or a comic book, for that matter? (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject biod 2012-01-16 07:52 pm UTC (link)
	I remember Rucka was good, because Rucka is awesome, but I can't think of any other ones (Simone?). Wonder Woman is one of those characters whom I love but often hate how they're written. Anyone want to help us out with good Wondy writers? (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

	no subject q99 2012-01-16 08:06 pm UTC (link)
	Rucka was great, Simone was great, the people between them varied from bland to really really bad. And Christopher Moeller did a nice job in League of One as well. Those're the ones who come to mind. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject benuben 2012-01-17 09:01 pm UTC (link)
	George Perez (obviously), Phil Jimenez, Eric Luke, Marc Andreyko, Gerry Conway. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject drexer 2012-01-16 04:15 pm UTC (link)
	I KNEW there was a reason I hadn't downloaded the pilot yet. I think this saved me a bit of the pain of watching it directly. Not much; just a bit. I'm gonna re-read the latest issues of WW now to feel better. (Reply to this)

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starwolf_oakley
2012-01-16 04:39 pm UTC (link)

The only defense I can think of for the Wonder Woman pilot is that it was a pilot, and hopefully would have been "fixed" a bit before becoming the first episode. Biggest fix needed: Wonder Woman doesn't kill anyone!!!

David E. Kelly does not condone vigilantism... I think. A few episodes of The Practice had defendants who had "gone vigilante" (if that is a term) and killed someone who had killed their loved ones. The episode "Police State" had a criminal in a hospital bed tortured for information. And that was shown to be a BAD THING... that led to the killer getting caught and legally charged. Huh.

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	no subject kurenai-tenka.livejournal.com 2012-01-16 05:32 pm UTC (link)
	Well I've never actually seen the Wonder Woman pilot until now. Wtf did I just watch?? (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject espanolbot 2012-01-16 05:57 pm UTC (link)
	Diana nailling a dude to a door through the throat with a pipe, amongst other things... On the bright side, at least this wasn't a multimillion dollar movie with a franchise riding on it! nervous laughter (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject janegray 2012-01-16 05:51 pm UTC (link)
	What issue of Justice League exactly? I normally avoid Team books, I prefer to focus on solo heroes (Young Avengers is pretty much the only exception to this rule), but I quite liked the scene with the little girl and would like to check the rest. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

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espanolbot
2012-01-16 05:55 pm UTC (link)

Issue... 3? I think? It's set fives years ago (at the start of the current Age of Superheroes) and introduces Diana and Aquaman to the team, with Diana apparently being debriefed by the US Airforce after arriving in the US with Steve Trevor, so she's not as naturalised as she becomes later in her own series.

Hence why she acts like a character from a fantasy novel arriving in the "real" world. :)

She is actually pretty good in the series, which bemuses me as Geoff Johns normally has trouble writing for her. She comes off as being oddly funny, badass and heroic all at once.

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weber_dubois22
2012-01-16 06:43 pm UTC (link)

LOL, I only had to watch 10 minutes of a Geekvolution review for the Wonder Woman pilot and realized nothing good was going to be said about it. The amusing thing about it though is the "Wonder Woman with Pants" thing never bugged me (the material of the costume did. So cheap). There are some really fantastic artists out there that made those pants work with her costume's design, especially the new 52 attire.

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	no subject espanolbot 2012-01-16 06:57 pm UTC (link)
	It's not the long trousered thing that bothers me, it's just funny having the note: "Pants to be darkened" over the footage, considering how terrifying Wonder Woman in is in this pilot. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

	no subject weber_dubois22 2012-01-16 06:59 pm UTC (link)
	Eh? That's weird. Just how dark did they want her pants? Black? (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject espanolbot 2012-01-16 07:10 pm UTC (link)
	More navy than cyan, I think. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject leikomgwtfbbq 2012-01-16 06:59 pm UTC (link)
	Another fab woman did a review of the Wonder Woman pilot with a lot of things that Nash and Co. forgot to mention! (You should watch The Wire. She's funny and informative!) http://blip.tv/the-idiots-lantern/the-idiot-s-lantern-wonder-woman-2011-pilot-5587816 (Reply to this)

	no subject biod 2012-01-16 07:48 pm UTC (link)
	That pilot was aweful and the review was hilarious, but what's most prominent in my mind is that they missed a huge oppertunity by failing to include the Judge Dredd clip. (Reply to this)

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auggie18
2012-01-16 08:02 pm UTC (link)

Wow, haven't seen Linkara in a while. He's gotten a lot heavier. Huh.

Also, could I just say that I would actually sorta enjoy this show if it wasn't Wonder Woman? If it was about a super villain who, through good publicity, managed to convince the world that she was a good guy? And if she thought she was actually a hero all while just trying to sate her darker urges? I mean, as Wonder Woman, that was terrible. But as a sort of "Bomb-Queen who thinks she's a good guy?" I'd watch it.

Also also, I don't think the Wonder Woman costume is that bad. I think it looks pretty good.

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	no subject mrstatham 2012-01-16 08:17 pm UTC (link)
	The Wonder Woman costume in the pilot looks a darn sight better than the creepy full-latex thing they originally deployed as a promo image. Once they actually gave her cloth trousers, it worked way better. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject q99 2012-01-16 08:09 pm UTC (link)
	Wow, that was worse than I thought/had heard. Especially in message, didn't expect a "torture is good" attached to a WW product- I'd heard people complain about her doubting issues, but that's not the big problem here! The Senator really did come off as the only good guy. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

	no subject mrstatham 2012-01-16 08:21 pm UTC (link)
	The problem with a TV show is that it's naturally gonna be less consistent than a comic, though. One writer might've had a significantly better grasp on the character than whoever wrote this crap. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject q99 2012-01-16 08:46 pm UTC (link)
	This is the pilot and thus some of the main writers, though. Plus, plots do need to get approval. Inconsistency can maybe excuse the odd off moment, but not this kind of thing. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject kirke_novak 2012-01-16 10:42 pm UTC (link)
	When I heard that the WW pilot episode is so bad it's unbroadcastable I couldn't believe it, blamed executive mendling. NOW I KNOW THE TRUTH! AND I AM AFRAID! ;_; Remember how Wondy killing ONE GUY was such a big issue? (Reply to this)

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big_daddy_d
2012-01-17 12:47 am UTC (link)

Seriously, the actress portraying Diana, honestly she actually looks the part and she's not bad. The problem was the script. That was horrible. Her saying ass and tits, it just..sounds so wrong and awkward. As for WW killing, for me, she strikes me as a type who does it ONLY as a last resort, otherwise, she wouldn't do so with such ease or in barbaric fashion. Speaking of WW's more barbaric style and the fact that she blatantly disregards the law, I wouldn't have minded that if this was a younger, more naive WW who just came to man's world. Leaves room for growth and her becoming the Wondy we know and love. Otherwise..this shit?

The only way this show would've even remotely worked is if the following was done.

1. Instead of Wonder Woman, make it a Power Girl series seeing as she runs a company and boobs have been a subject in regards to her.

2. Take out the love interest part.

3. Remember she doesn't blatantly break the law and come off as more of a villain than the actual villains.

4. She's not Jack Bauer.

5. If you want to call it Wonder Woman, remember that she's not a business woman who owns her own company, hence the reason for tip 1.

6. She's a warrior, yes, but she's also a woman of, truth, honor and compassion as well as love.

7. She is not vulgar.

8. If you want her breaking laws and brutally killing people, then make it a younger and naive Wondy whose just a fish out of water. It's called character growth.

9. Make it a completely original hero with no association to Wonder Woman, PG, or DC if this is the crap you're going with.

10. NEVER ignore the source material. Geebus, you don't have to be a comic reader. I get that. I'm sure plenty of us get that, but do not ignore the source material. At least make the effort to gain an understanding of it before doing this shit.

11. Personally I think JMS's run would be good as source material for a Wondy t.v. series.

That's all I'm saying. Get it right dammit! >_

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	P.S. - One more thing big_daddy_d 2012-01-17 12:50 am UTC (link)
	12. Pants need to be darkened. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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thespis
2012-01-17 02:23 am UTC (link)

;________;

I'd read all the frightening spoilers. I'd seen a clip of the horrible, horrible hospital torture scene. I knew that the pilot was comically terrible and more or less completely irredeemable.

I still was not prepared for the full extent of its awfulness.

And I just can't even-- How do they take a heroine who's defined by her commitment to peace, truth, justice and compassion and just go, "hm, that looks great, but you know what I think Wondy really needs is more torture and senseless murder. Maybe a man or two to moon after on the side." What the fuck is this shit?!

And why is Diana brutally torturing people for information when she can just compel them to speak truthfully with the Lasso of Truth?

And why does she need a multi-million dollar corporation to fund her crime-fighting when she was blessed by the gods with the powers of flight and super-strength and did I mention the magical weaponry? Why does she need to build million-dollar superhero jets when SHE CAN BLOODY FLY?

And why does she have a false identity when she's supposed to be all about truth?

And why does she think she's fooling anybody with the Clark Kent glasses disguise when her face is all over the television?

And why does she still wear the glasses when she's alone in her home and there's clearly nobody around to see her?

And why am I even bothering to try to make sense of this horrible piece of awful?

Bleh. I need to read some Rucka!Wondy just to cleanse my brain of this travesty.

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dr_archeville
2012-01-17 05:55 pm UTC (link)

Is this incarnation actually an Amazon empowered by the Greek deities? I don't recall seeing or hearing anything in the pilot indicating she is -- it seems like she's presented as a normal human woman who (somehow) formed a multimillion dollar corporation to fund/create the tech needed for her vigilante crimefighting efforts (which is funded by the merchandising of her heroic persona, but she didn't have a heroic persona until the company gave her the tech needed to have it... and now I've gone cross-eyed).

Her lasso, while referred to as a "Lasso of Truth," looks more like it's just a "Lasso of Shooting Out Quickly and Reeling People In (and Giving Whiplash)".

Did the review skip the part of the pilot that says she is a divinely-empowered Amazon with magical equipment?

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	no subject espanolbot 2012-01-17 05:57 pm UTC (link)
	Well she does have superpowers, and the senator dude does being up how she isn't human (and she uses the term human in a vaguely insulting way). (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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thespis
2012-01-18 01:39 am UTC (link)

I've seen the whole episode now, and it's definitely made clear that she's an Amazon and not a normal human being. It looks as though most of the mythological elements have been stripped, though; she doesn't fly and there's no mention of the god. Which makes me sad.

She's kind of some freakish Batman/Iron Man/Ally McBeal hybrid. Who tortures people.

Also, apparently she wiretaps her lasso. D:

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silverzeo
2012-01-17 05:48 am UTC (link)

Wow... I heard HOW bad it was in making... but that... THAT! How could they defy so many rules and aspects of hero tv shows, let alone Wonder Woman. Have the bad guy kill their OWN man more than the hero does indirectly. Diana is NOT Brock Samson! This is on par with the overall message of Veronica Mars, that the weak can only take down the powerful in act of violence and nothing else!

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	no subject espanolbot 2012-01-17 10:30 am UTC (link)
	Aw, Veronica Mars also used genuine detective work to solve problems more than violence. And if that didn't work, they could use outright black mail. Argh, I wanted a fourth series of that show, but they were told to have smaller story arcs and wrap it up before they were ready, resulting in the third series being a total mess. :( (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject eyz 2012-01-17 09:29 am UTC (link)
	I dunno if that's a great characterization of Diana either... I mean I'd take Rucka, Perez or Simone's Diana over Johns anyday! (Reply to this)

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Linkara and Co. Review the Wonder Woman 2011

You have a lasso of truth, remember?

Re: You have a lasso of truth, remember?

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