arbre_rieur: (Default)
[personal profile] arbre_rieur posting in [community profile] scans_daily


Three pages from ACTION COMICS 5 and four from issue 6...







Remember, ACTION COMICS takes place at the beginning of Superman's career, so it's a time traveling Superman from the future in all the following scenes, working alongside the Legion of Superheroes.



The octopus is Erik Drekken (What, no snazzy codename, Morrison?), a villain with a pretty neat power. He's basically like Evolvo Lad from the Heroes of Lallor or Manikin from Alpha Flight, but to the nth power.



That leads into the scene that [profile] superfangirl posted, in which Superman searches his memory to find where it's wonky, in order to pinpoint the exact spot in his mind the bad guys are hiding.



Inside a tesseract in Superman's brain, the Legion successfully defeats the Anti-Superman Army and recover the kryptonite engine from them.



Date: 2012-02-02 06:36 am (UTC)
kenn_el: Northstar_Hmm (Default)
From: [personal profile] kenn_el
He retrurns next month. The future folk fixed things while he wasn't looking and dropped some hints about upcoming challenges. Dang, this was an awesome issue! I still haven't forgiven them for killing the Kents, but they're still a very effective presence.

Date: 2012-02-02 06:44 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
Well, this is something that's been kinda grating at me since the end of #3 when the Collector of Worlds made his move on Earth, so next issue is just a return to that.

As for the Kents...they had some great character moments in the past, but I can't help but think of Mark Waid explaining his problem with having the Kents around and I can't deny that he hasn't got a point. So yeah, I do think they've worked best when they give him advice and strength as a child rather than as an adult.

Date: 2012-02-02 08:39 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
What is the problem according to Waid?

Date: 2012-02-02 03:08 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
Basically, that it lessened Superman's independence and ability to think and work out things himself, because whenever he had ANY kind of problem, he would fly back to the Kent farm. I remember him giving out the usual scenario in a pretty funny way during an interview he had on the War Rocket Ajax podcast.

Date: 2012-02-02 03:15 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Hm, I could see that, though I don't find that they were used *that* often.

Mostly Ma and Pa Kent were the go-to people to handle boarders but Clark stood on his own.

Date: 2012-02-02 09:00 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I can't deny that he hasn't got a point

That's a lot of negatives, and suggests that you think he's wrong.

So yeah, I do think they've worked best when they give him advice and strength as a child rather than as an adult.

Can't agree there, IMHO they worked best when they were one of his anchors to Earth and a still present moral compass for him to talk to and discuss matters with, like real parents are to grown ups all over the world.

I think Byrne's logic for still having them around was good; What offers more varied storytelling possibilities? Having the Kents dead, or having them alive?

Date: 2012-02-02 09:39 am (UTC)
superboyprime: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superboyprime
The problem with the Kents reminds of a problem with lots of Star Trek novels (at least modern ones). For whatever reason, the authors of ST novels these days have really taken to the idea of ship counselors. They had a minimal role at best in the TV shows, but in the novels they're a pretty major presence, always helping the other characters through whatever the angst du jour is. Hell, one of the current series even has three counselors in its cast.

The problem is that when they're around, this is how the subplot will resolve itself: The counselor tells whoever's going through something, in a logical and calm manner, "See, you problem is this. Now, here's what you need to start doing..." Every. damn. time. It's repetitive, it lacks drama, and it makes things way too easy for the characters, as the solution gets handed to them. Each time, I just can't help thinking how much more rewarding the story would be if the character had reached that conclusion on their own, without a cheat sheet.

However, there's no easy way around this problem once you've already established that the counselors exist. What are the characters going to do? Never seek out counselors for help? That just rings untrue. Most grown, mature individuals aren't going to feel shame at receiving confidential counseling, especially in what's supposed to be an enlightened, utopian future. (And I do applaud the authors for promoting the idea that, hey, there's nothing weak or shameful about therapy.)

When the Kents were alive, it always seemed like there was a similar problem. Logically, Clark would seek them out if he's going through a personal issue. That's who he is, and who they are. But it always ends in the same, uninteresting way: Ma and Pa dishing out some words of homespun (and often trite and cliched, it has to be said) wisdom, and voila, problem solved.

Date: 2012-02-02 10:24 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Perhaps the need for Counsellors came about when they noted how many loons had made Admiral in Starfleet.

Starfleet - Promoting psychologically damaged people since 1966

Date: 2012-02-03 10:35 pm (UTC)
citygod: (Default)
From: [personal profile] citygod
That's a great line!

Date: 2012-02-02 12:45 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
My biggest problem with the Kents being dead? Supposedly comics writers want fans to relate to their characters. We're in 2012, in America, during an era of "extended adolescence" and people having to move back home in adulthood for various reasons.

This isn't the 1930's Dust Bowl where Superman came from. And they were already old like the original versions of the Kents. They looked to be say in their early thirties at oldest to me. Maybe late 20s. How many people in their target audience, 18-34, can relate to having both parents dead by their early 50's(the parents) of apparently natural causes?

Date: 2012-02-02 03:27 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Also, this is an age where most people can, even if they've moved out, call up and talk to their parents at any time, often with live video.

Date: 2012-02-02 03:18 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
I think you nailed it--it became rather formulaic. It would have been AMAZING if he came to the Kents with a problem and there was a beat, look at each other, and then one says, "...We got nothin', son. I'm sorry. You're a smart man, though, I'm sure you can figure it out."

Date: 2012-02-02 05:11 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (pie (apple))
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
I think you nailed it--it became rather formulaic. It would have been AMAZING if he came to the Kents with a problem and there was a beat, look at each other, and then one says, "...We got nothin', son. I'm sorry. You're a smart man, though, I'm sure you can figure it out."

LOL, good one! But I have to say I'm firmly on the side of wanting the Kents alive. To me, saying that Clark ran back to them all the time for answers to his problems was wrong, as well as promoting this notion that men have to stand on their own without asking advice from anyone. Even Batman has Alfred.

The Kents are a vital part of Clark's well-being and mission here on Earth, and I think it's just something lacking when they're gone early in his life.

Date: 2012-02-02 05:41 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
I can see your point...but so far I can't really say that I've missed them, or thought any of the books would have benefited from having them alive.

In fact, the moment in Action Comics #3, after the people have turned on Superman and he has his shirt in the trash was made all the more powerful when all he could do is say to the photo of his parents that he's so sorry and that he tried.

Date: 2012-02-02 05:54 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (cherry pie)
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
Definitely a woobie factor! :)

But in the long run, it was interesting to have a superhero with two parents still living and part of his support system. I know that there can be stories told this way without them, but I prefer them around. I suppose it might be one of those YMMV things.

Date: 2012-02-02 10:15 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
But I've seen that "Sad moment in front of lost parents" from so many other heroes (From Batman to Spider-Man) so many times. Clark being able to go and talk to them is a much more potent device, because there are so many different ways it could go. How about when he DOESN'T agree with them, or vice versa.

Date: 2012-02-02 10:10 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Smallville did just that in the first season, when Clark wakes up to find he's floating several inches above his mattress.

He goes to Jonathan Kent, whose response is that he'll always do his best to help Clark out with any problems he might have, but that violating the laws of physics isn't something that he has much experience with.

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