aeka: (Huntress [glasses]:)
[personal profile] aeka posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Looks like this issue will be tonnes better than the last, and Helena sheds more light on her upbringing.

I’m led to believe now, Earth-2 Batman was just like his original Golden Age version, who used to kill people. I also think she’s being more Selina-like in her approach to fighting crime. Maybe Earth-2 Selina was the post-Crisis Selina? I’m starting to increasingly believe this is *very* likely.

From DC's Source:

Reload

Damn this is too exciting. This, plus Harley's Quinn's origin coming out this week? Wednesday please come fast!!!! XP

Date: 2012-02-06 06:13 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
That first page with the Italian fortress inside Helena's silhouette is flippin' GORGEOUS.

Also, it's funny that we probably get the biggest hint about her origins after it was officially revealed via the writer.

I'm not sure if I buy your theory on her dad/their Batman being the kind that killed, though. I won't say it's completely impossible, but the one line we hear about her dad doesn't strike me that way.

Date: 2012-02-06 07:22 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
yeah me too, i don't see this scene as = batman is willing to kill. cause massive amounts of property damager, yes. not saying its unlikley... but Helena did expressly say Property Damage.

Date: 2012-02-06 08:27 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
I can see that line of reasoning, sure. I just think that if she did have Golden Age Batman as her dad, she would have been willing to actually kill the thugs fighting her. I mean, there were many instances in the Golden Age where both Batman AND Robin were willing to kill the thugs to make a point.

Date: 2012-02-06 10:56 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
(which I find highly unlikely since they feared this guy),

ummm Helena clearly said "I leave this bastard at your mercy" i think it is safe to assume that they did in fact kill him. or tied him up and threw him over board andlet god handle it.

the police could have killed him too, but i think the stronger implication is the women did.

blowing up a ship is no gaurantee of killing everyone or anyone on board. they could have bailed, it could have caused structual damage only... infact, i think the frieghter was said to be empty except for the girls and the skelenton crew, the point was to take the ships out of comission not the people on board necissarily

Date: 2012-02-06 11:30 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
Are you seriously making this argument? :/ If you go back and look at the school bus pages on #2, you'll see that there are guys actively running onboard the ship just as it goes "boom" and you see Helena driving away with a smile on her face. There's also the fact that she snapped at a a guy for firing a gun near a tanker as it could "cause an explosion."

o_o i admit its been a while since i read those issues, but how "explody" did the ship get? to me, unless there are bodies floating in the sea, or it is expressly stated "At least those men won't be hurting any more women ever again." then i concider most if not all to have survived.

I would believe this more if they were actually shown to be angry at Moretti for the way that he treated them vs looking helpless even when Helena left Moretti "at [their] mercy." She could've inspired them to be stronger, sure, but I doubt they would have actually killed him. So the cops offing him makes more sense to me since the cops weren't shown to be honest cops if they were affiliated with him and the Kufra chairman.

the way i see it, if Moretti saw that they still feared him, and helena was now gone, i see no reason for him not to reassert his dominance over the women... and if he still feared reprisal from Helena, the women would most likely take advantage of the situation. i see one woman looking surprised, at Helena, another one who's face seems impassive. Both looking at Helena, not looking at Moretti at all. so thier "shock" is being aimed at Helena, who just kicked the shit out of the man they were afraid of... they look more in awe of Helena, than in fear of a now basically powerless Moretti. and there is a third woman who's face we can't even see for all we know she is grining in satisfaction....

the point is, yes, the police could have killed him.... but the women (who have recieved a great many abuses from and because of this man) are as likely as the police are.

Date: 2012-02-06 06:49 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
*sigh*.....

Date: 2012-02-06 08:27 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
Is that a bored sigh or a wistful sigh? :P

Date: 2012-02-06 08:33 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Sad (We'll meet again Tiger)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
wistful.... i love this book. and i love Huntress. But i miss Helena Betinelli.... i have nothing against Helena Wayne (but this Helena Wayne seems different even than the Previous one, so essentially this is a third, new character). the thing is i love this series, but loving this series only reminds me this is not the Huntress i loved... despite still loving this huntress and this series.... im a little confused.... and then i start thinking to that first scene they told us about in World's Finest where they have Helena BURNING her Helena Bertinelli passport.... and it hurts more... i know stupid... but still

Date: 2012-02-06 11:00 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
To be honest, I'm not sure why anyone would expect a more modern Helena Wayne to be just like her Bronze Age incarnation when none of the characters from that era remained the same after the first Crisis. Pretty much almost everyone in the Bat-family was made darker and more psychologically complex than their pre-Crisis incarnations. Even the New 52 Barbara Gordon doesn't feel like she went back to her Silver/Bronze personality despite stepping back into the role of Batgirl and having the roughly same views about crime-fighting that she's had in every incarnation.

No but unless Earth 2 is dramatically different, Earth 2 is generally seen as the "lighter world" where "heroes were heroes," or something like that. which is why there is a justice Society, in stead of LEAGUE. The Term Society, leads to the implication that the heroes were more of a social, or societal influence. ie, in this world Earth-1, the Heroes are for the most part either feared, or looked upon with a wary eye. where as earth 2 the heroes are more readily embraced and accepted.

Date: 2012-02-08 10:51 pm (UTC)
shobogan: Stephanie as Robin, swinging over Robin and saying "Here comes the Girl Wonder!" (Default)
From: [personal profile] shobogan
I'm not as attached to Wayne as I am Bertinelli, but I'm still sad about Pre-Crisis Kara. And Jason, for that matter - I adore the new Jason but I miss the old one, too. So basically, yeah, I feel you.

I will just never understand erasing characters.

Date: 2012-02-08 11:25 pm (UTC)
shobogan: Stephanie as Robin, swinging over Robin and saying "Here comes the Girl Wonder!" (Default)
From: [personal profile] shobogan
I understand the idea behind the first Crisis, at least, but some parts of the execution - yeah. And I still don't understand why the multiverse had to be destroyed. It doesn't have to be confusing!

It's the same thing that happened with Jason, really - they're both Robin, they're both Jason Todd, but they have pretty much nothing else in common. Not their backstory, not their personality, not their relationships. And I'm really conflicted about it, because - I probably love the second Jason more? But I hate that the first one never happened.

Helena Bertinelli is my Huntress, but I wish she hadn't come at the expense of Helena Wayne. And now I wish we hadn't got this Helena at the expense of her and -

Dammit, DC, just stop it.

Date: 2012-02-09 01:11 am (UTC)
shobogan: Stephanie as Robin, swinging over Robin and saying "Here comes the Girl Wonder!" (Default)
From: [personal profile] shobogan
Ooh, that would have been cool.

Personally I felt Wayne and Bertinelli should've been separate characters from the get-go since there's something equally compelling about having an Italian mafia princess becoming a heroine, just as having a daughter of Batman and Catwoman is. Both origins have great potential for great storytelling, plus could even a team-up between the two could lead to interesting places.

Yeah, there really isn't any reason for them not to be, and Bertinelli is a whole, intriguing character in her own right. Also I'd feel less weird shipping her with Selina.

From the scans I've seen, the one in the current mini seems like a combination of the two - kind of like Helena Kyle in the BoP tv series.

Date: 2012-02-07 08:55 am (UTC)
eyz: (Darkseid)
From: [personal profile] eyz
I dunno... I'm still imagining this new Earth 2's going to be our pre-Flashpoint DCU.
I mean, isn't that Earth 2's role, to be the home of the DCUniverse that just go discarded?

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