Liars, A to D

[arbre_rieur]

Three and four pages from THE TRANSFORMERS: MORE THAN MEETS THE EYE 1 and 2, respectively...









The blast is the work of the legless Tailgate, finally freeing himself from underground after six million years. He kept passing out, so it took him a long time.

Comments

[lascoden]

Do Transformers have any sort of aging process, or are they all functionally immortal?

[beoweasel]

Given that Shockwave ruled Cybertron for millions of years in Megatron's absence, I think they're pretty immortal.

[q99]

They're functionally immortal, but they do get killed, run out of fuel, wear builds up, tech moves on, etc..

Kup, for example, is so old that for a long time it was hard to repair him if he got serious damage.

Presence of good repair facilities and energon supplies are key to a good life, I'd say.

[q99]

I love Swerve here :)


Btw, what *is* going on with Whirl and all the bodies? Did he kill them? Just find them?

[akodo_rokku]

Considering he's blaming Cyclonus for "desecrating corpses", we can assume he has at *least* been playing with them and talking to them like they're still alive for quite a while.

[spacebetween]

Depends on the series. In the G1 cartoon it was hinted that a young A-3 was Alpha Trion and he lived for well over 6 million years since he was one of the first Transformers made by Vector Sigma.

Still in all continuities they can live for a huge period of time barring death from combat or accidents provided they get the repairs.

[kamino_neko]

That just means they're long-lived.

[kamino_neko]

There seems to be something of a natural ageing process.

Kup was already mentioned.

In the flash-forward in the last issue of the last series, Ironhide (15 million years into the future) has aged to the point that he can't transform, and he's got trouble walking.

In an earlier scene from MTMtE 1, Ratchet complains that he's ageing, and it's effecting his skills.

On the other hand...there's Alpha Trion, who's pretty much the oldest Transformer in existence, and he's STILL terribly spry in that flash-forward. (He apparently upgrades regularly enough that nothing gets to the point of irreparable wear, like Ironhide's transformation cog did.)

The time frame in which it happens seems...very variable, however. Ironhide's probably around 20 million years old in the flash-forward, and, while he's deteriorated, and seems to be the only Great War era bot still alive (or perhaps just the only one on that particular planet), he's still alive, and others of his generation apparently lived long enough that stories of the Great War are still perfectly well known to the younger generation.

On the other hand in The Death of Optimus Prime, More That Meets the Eye, and Robots in Disguise, they talk about periods of around 10 million years as though it's absolutely ridiculous to believe that they know anything about it, because it's so unimaginably long before the lives of even ancient bots like Kup.

[drmcninja]

Huh. Just noticed he's poured a lot of gasoline on the ground right there. Immolation perhaps as well?

[the_phantom]

I love how whirls a psychopathic asshole in this comic.

[q99]

Ok, so "found and messed with," seems most likely.

Still an intensely creepy bot.

[q99]

*Cyclonus* used to work for the dead universe, and *Whirl* is the creepy one!

[icon_uk]

Six million years isn't that big a deal given how long the Autobots and Decepticons were in stasis under Mount St Hillary whilst other bots like Shockwave was active on Cybertron the whole time, and the Combaticons were able to be recreated into new bodies.

IIRC The only truly immortal Transformer was Starcream following his apparent death by Galvatron, but he came back as an intangible, host possessing "ghost".

[the_phantom]

I Think talking to a lot of dead bodys is a little more than "Creepy"

[terrykun]

Those are all the Sweeps that died during the conflict with the D-Void. Scourge's whereabouts are still unknown.

[spacebetween]

Alpha Trion still out ages Shockwave considerably, as he was there before there were Autobots and Decepticons factions. I just can't remember how long that period was. In Prime and some comics he is one of the 13.

Ahh Starscream during his ghost time was fun, which the Maximals trying to recreate that by creating Protoform X/Rampage.

But you are right if their mind is still functioning they can get new body, they can be brought back from the Matrix or if their mind is on a 4 inch floppy.........

[q99]

Ah, Sweeps. Sweeps are drones anyway, right?

[kamino_neko]

Sortakinda, though Primus knows the definition of 'drone' in the Transformers multiverse is pretty expansive. The Prime Vehicons are occasionally suggested to be drones, but are clearly sapient, and possessed of personalities.

[q99]

Alpha Trion seems very good at maintenance/tech in general.

In the cartoon, he kept Elita-One's squad running for 4 mil years, and in IDW, he constructed an entirely new body for Ironhide (a big task for him, mind, but an impressive one).

[spacebetween]

Well in the movie half of the Insecticons become the Sweeps so they weren't drones there, just more a subgroup without the -con suffix. One can assume it is the same here, just a subgroup for 'expendable cannon fodder troopers'. Which would explain Cyclonus reaction then if they were drones.

[icon_uk]

Given their ability to replicate countless clones of themselves it could be argued that the three prime Insecticons were mostly drones.

[spacebetween]

The original three Insecticons (Kickback, Shrapnel and Bombshell) were normal Transformers. In "Plague of Insecticons" the clones acted liked the originals so I don't think that they were drones.

The Insecticons in Armada were drones

[icon_uk]

By the time you're talking a lifespan in millions of years, most species would find it hard to tell the difference, relatively speaking.

[icon_uk]

Not drones perhaps, but copies which could be destroyed with no harm to the original.

Once you retcon in the uniqueness of "Sparks" as a concept the difference is clearer I think.

And there does seem to be a long history of Decepticons having generals in charge of multiple versions of themselves; Starscream and co were supposed to be the leaders of a larger flight, Scourge and the Sweeps, Cyclonus and his duplicates, then we have Tankor, Thrust, Jetstorm, Obsidian and Strika

etc

[kamino_neko]

Fair point, certainly.

But since 'ageing' is actually getting to be a pretty major point in the IDW version of the universe, it is a difference with a meaning, even if we mayfly types have a hard time grocking it.

[icon_uk]

Cyclonus is aware of what he did, accepts that it was not a healthy thing to do, and wants to change.

Whirl hangs around talking to corroding bodies he quite possibly killed, and sees that as being perfectly normal and not something he has any intention of changing.

Of the two, Whirl is definitely the creepier.

[kamino_neko]

This does kind of raise the question of at what point Whirl transitioned from simply psychopathic to psychotic. (Or, at least borderline.)

[wyze2099]

The Vehicons in TF Prime seem to be drones more in the "working stiff" usage of the term. In fact, I get the feeling they were given the term "drones" just to get past the censors. "Don't worry, this isn't mindless graphic violence. They're just soulless drone robots. They're not alive. They didn't feel a thing. That scene with Bulkhead pulling out one's innards? Just wiring. Yeah, I know, Breakdown's talking to one, but he's just bored. Really."

And they cross their fingers and hope the censors don't notice the personality quirks that point to the Vehicons being low-level flunkies like Stormtroopers. The fans have certainly noticed, and it's led to running gags on review podcasts. "Whoops, there goes Steve from Accounting!" "Phil from Human Resources gets slaughtered." And so on.

[kamino_neko]

I suspect a money saving thing, personally - they want a lot of Decepticons, both for the 'the Autobots are insanely outnumbered' thing, and so they can kill them off frequently without seriously depleting the cast. So, they create 1 body type (with two known alt-modes) and give them all the same deco, to save time and money, then call them drones to explain it.

Cliffjumper, Skyquake, Makeshift, and Breakdown argue against their being all that shy about killing off 'real' characters. (Even if Breakdown did get his after a fairly long Decepticon Death Drought.)

[wyze2099]

Yeah, you do have a point.