aeka: (Huntress [angry]:)
[personal profile] aeka posting in [community profile] scans_daily
I didn't think it was possible for this book to get anymore problematic, but I stand corrected.

WARNING: for graphic eroticised violence.

4 pages speak for themselves

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And then the inevitable confrontation with the Dark Knight himself.

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..............

Dear Winick,

Helena Wayne called. And right now she's feeling like unleashing her own personal brand of justice after the way you've shat on both her mum and dad by writing rubbish such as this. And "rubbish" is being *very* polite. This. THIS is just not "sexy" at all.

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Date: 2012-02-18 05:45 pm (UTC)
harpers_child: melaka fray reading from "Tales of the Slayers". (Default)
From: [personal profile] harpers_child
dear dc,
have you ever wondered why i've stopped buying your comics? i mean other than that whole stephanie brown business a few years back. this would be why. i'm a woman. i identify with the female characters. stop making me a victim and get out of my way so i can hero properly.
no love,
me.

Date: 2012-02-18 05:49 pm (UTC)
dancesontrains: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dancesontrains
<3

Date: 2012-02-18 06:52 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
It doesnt matter how they treat womans but how they write them

Killing Joke? No complains
Supergirl's Death? No complains

War Games? Worst Batman's story EVER! (editors' fault)
Identity Crisis's Rape? Why a mother€!£¥ng rape (editors fault) it doesnt add or mean anything!
Cry for Justice? You took an Eisner wining author and gave him a rifle and firced to kill inocents, congratulations editors you are officialy nazis

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Date: 2012-02-18 05:48 pm (UTC)
dancesontrains: (Manisha in Dil Se)
From: [personal profile] dancesontrains
...TBH, I'm just laughing at how bad the 'dialogue' in the last panels is.

And ewww @ the rest.

Date: 2012-02-18 06:06 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
What a load of shit. The art's increasingly devolving into freakish, ridiculous panels of Selina's facial expressions, and the writing's pretty pathetic. Again, if I were DC, I would've backed up a dump truck full of money to Ed Brubaker's house with a note simply saying 'Moar Catwoman plz'.

He at least knows how to write a sexy and confident woman, whereas Winnick is just barely putting a layer of gloss on dialogue that may as well be 'I AM SEXY AND A THIEF, PROBLEM? ALSO, I HAVE A DEATH WISH!' while Batman's going 'I AM DARK AND INTIMIDATING AND WE WILL KEEP ON HAVING THESE BULLSHIT MEETINGS BECAUSE IT VAGUELY HINTS THAT YOU ARE MORALLY UNCERTAIN, SELINA. THAT AND THE SEXY TIMES'.

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Date: 2012-02-18 06:23 pm (UTC)
omnipotent: (Dero)
From: [personal profile] omnipotent
You know, I'm glad I'm not the only one who's been wondering what the hell's going on with the art in this book.

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Date: 2012-02-18 06:07 pm (UTC)
valtyr: (Peej no thanks)
From: [personal profile] valtyr
Batman's teeth, what the heck is going on.

I don't like this.

Date: 2012-02-18 08:35 pm (UTC)
jetblack927: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jetblack927
Yea, between this and Batman #6, it's been a really weird week for the Cape Crusader's Chompers...

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Date: 2012-02-18 06:13 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] whitesycamore
I think the thing that offends me most is Winick's habit of recycling jokes that weren't even funny in the first place. That line about it being hard to make witty comebacks with a collapsed lung is straight out of Under The Red Hood.

Speaking of which, I don't think that the *writing* in this scene is particularly sexualised - in most respects it's highly comparable to the way that Winick wrote Jason's torture at the hands of the Joker.

The later interactions between Selina and Bruce are cringe worthy, but I think the eroticised violence is all down to March's art.

Although I actually really like the way the panel with the ear biting is drawn. Well, I don't 'like' it, but it's striking.

Date: 2012-02-18 06:24 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
To be fair, it doesn't say the eroticised violence was in the writing; I'd agree with you that it's March's art - Although quite how you manage to make the ol' Mike Tyson special look even vaguely erotic is beyond me.

That aside, this volume of Catwoman still aggravates me. Between the violence repeatedly dumped on Selina - her home being blown up or whatever and now this, and the continued reliance on guest appearances from Batman, it's just annoying; I know Brubaker actively involved Bruce in his run, and that Winnick probably has to elaborate a little on the specifics of the new Selina/Bruce setup, but it's just so aggravating.

I don't need to see a book where Selina even vaguely tries to justify herself to Batman by stating she's 'earned' something she's stolen. She shouldn't have to - and I don't think it's remotely in character for her.

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Date: 2012-02-18 06:21 pm (UTC)
omnipotent: (Turn away)
From: [personal profile] omnipotent
Look, I understood Selina was pissed, but I shook my head so hard when she went all Mike Tyson on the other woman, whose name I forgot--it was mentioned a few issues back but I didn't care enough to commit it to memory.

And the argument between Catwoman and Batman read like something I'd see in a daytime soap opera. My eyes got sore from all the rolling they did.

ETA: But even the backstory leading up to this was pathetic to me. She steals a load of money and then spends it lavishly, while knowing she should lay low? I'm sorry, but the Catwoman I know would lay low for a few days before lavishing herself with the finer pleasures of life. She's not stupid, geez.
Edited Date: 2012-02-18 06:24 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-02-18 09:43 pm (UTC)
lorriek: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lorriek
Speaking of soap opera, the Bruce/Selina scene above reminded me something I read, I don't know, about 15 years ago in a soap magazine (yes, I read soap opera magazines, like any good soap addict).

The article was an interview with an actor named Randolph Mantooth (you don't forget a name like that), who described a scene he was asked to play. In it, his character was having a dramatic confrontation with the woman he was involved with who was involved in some sort of risky business (it was a soap I watched, but I only vaguely remember it). The script called for him to grab her by the upper arms and shake her as he yelled at her. But he said to the director (obviously I'm paraphrasing), "Wait, my character is supposed to be the hero. Why am I manhandling my girlfriend?" His point made, the scene was played with no grabbing or shaking.

I remember the details of this article so clearly because it made an impression on me. I realized just how common it was to see men, even the heroes, grabbing women like that in TV shows/movies. Ever since, every time I see the "hero" do something similar, I remember that article.

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Date: 2012-02-18 06:54 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
I find what they're doing with Selina interesting--first page of the first issue, once you look around the boobs, basically lays out her motivation at this point: life isn't without risk, you could die at any minute, so why waste time and not just take what you want? Second and third issue was basically about her finding out first-hand that the risk isn't just to her, and her friend is killed in the process, all because of her actions. What this issue in particular seems to show is that she's grieving hard over Lola's death.

Between this, the solicits saying she's going to move around to other forms of crime, and what her role in Night of the Owls is, I wonder if what Winnick is doing is taking Selina from a more reckless, common criminal place and is turning her more towards the more calm, crafty, less amoral version we saw in stuff like Brubaker's run.

Date: 2012-02-18 07:02 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Now, not so long ago, I'd respond to these pages like this:

"Why? Because Dan DiDio hates you, that's why."

And yet I wonder if this is more Bob Harras' doing. And there isn't much that says Bob Harras hates all comic book fans.

Date: 2012-02-18 09:17 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
Dont flatter him so much, he runs a big boat full of "editors" (that cant even get the series on time). It doesnt help that they have writers like T.Krull who doesnt know how to write and lose their best writers to marvel. Also there is the fact that most new characters like Ryan Choi were absolutely dull and plain (wich he has no blame of).

And if you follow the career of Bob Harras you can tell he has to be a friend with some one in DC, there is no other way he got the Job. There is a whole generation of bad editors, I think we need more editors than artist, more good editors, this wont survive a day on literary publishing business.

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Date: 2012-02-18 07:26 pm (UTC)
weber_dubois22: (Jovovich)
From: [personal profile] weber_dubois22
Color me officially speechless... I just have no comeback for this.

Date: 2012-02-18 08:15 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Couldn't care less)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I'm very disappointed that one of the first times I use this icon, it's for a Catwoman series.

Date: 2012-02-18 09:43 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Such is the power of Winick!

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Date: 2012-02-18 11:54 pm (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
In fairness, Selina is the kind of person who'd bite off someone's ear if significantly pissed off. But, yeah, getting flashbacks of Steph's torture scenes, Thanks DC!

I'm going to go back to my Cooke and Brubaker trades, there at least the violence isn't there for the sake of violence and any sexual element isn't there for the fanservice.

Generally got a good week for women in comics at appears, what with the Brenda thing over in Blue Beetle and this. Still, at least Wonder Woman is continuing at a pace that isn't as degrading as those two comics. :(

Date: 2012-02-19 01:57 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: Batwoman, red/black/white art (Batwoman)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
Yeah, that's about the only thing I don't dislike about the scene.

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Date: 2012-02-19 12:09 am (UTC)
moetushie: Beaton cartoon - a sexy revolution. (30 rock → liz)
From: [personal profile] moetushie
Yikes.

Date: 2012-02-19 12:48 am (UTC)
thespis: ([batwoman] kate is made of awesome)
From: [personal profile] thespis
oh my god what is this. D:

Date: 2012-02-19 01:11 am (UTC)
liara_shadowsong: (alfred)
From: [personal profile] liara_shadowsong
Dear DC,

I like Selina Kyle quite a lot. Therefore, I will not be purchasing the current Catwoman series you are publishing. Because it, quite frankly, sucks. You should probably reconsider the directions in which you intend to take this title if you want it to be successful.

No love at all,
L. Shadowsong

P.S. Please bring back Big Barda and Mr. Miracle, and give them their own title. Also Stephanie Brown. And Ted Kord. And bring Power Girl fully into the DCnu as a superhero, with a good writer. Need I continue?

P.P.S. I don't like your peeling-sticker-style new logo. Is that really the best your creative team could come up with?

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Date: 2012-02-19 01:16 am (UTC)
filkertom: (whodoyouthink)
From: [personal profile] filkertom
Just had a thought regarding all those action figures and playsets and Lego and all that, and wondering: Do any current comic writers imagine kids playing out these comics with their toys?

I mean, I know "comics aren't for kids anymore", but... this is some pretty fucking disturbing shit, and in the flood of pretty fucking disturbing shit we've had the past few years it's only Tonight's Example From The Batman Family.

I feel filthy just looking at this -- not kinky-deep-in-my-heart-and-soul filthy, but eeugh-just-splashed-in-something-disgusting-have-to-clean-myself-off filthy.

Date: 2012-02-19 02:59 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
DC Direct sold a Black Mask whose accessories included a power drill... and that fact alone is perhaps why I'm almost glad they never released a Stephanie Robin figure because the implications would be too disturbing to contemplate.

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Date: 2012-02-19 01:19 am (UTC)
lissa_quon: (wtf)
From: [personal profile] lissa_quon
I'm still trying to figure what Selina is doing after the ear biting. She's like springing back on her finger tips...but her feet are tucked in really awkwardly? She's going to land on the side of her feet/ankles? That seems like a bad idea. IDEK

Also - wow that last panel - badly written Death Wish AND tears. What...who is this? This can't be Catwoman.

Date: 2012-02-19 02:03 am (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
I say Misfit, who has the real Selina stashed in a closet somewhere, and is now impersonating her to live out her fantasies of banging Batman (canon).

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Date: 2012-02-19 02:35 am (UTC)
junipepper: (jumplines)
From: [personal profile] junipepper
Stay classy, DC...

Date: 2012-02-19 03:40 am (UTC)
lieut_kettch: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lieut_kettch
Seriously, WHAT. THE. FUCK. DID. I. JUST. SEE?

Even the 90's weren't as 90's as this.

Date: 2012-02-19 06:01 am (UTC)
meowshi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] meowshi
I don't like this book at all, but it's mainly due to the art.

People are right to say that there is nothing sexy about it. Even during the rare moments when Catwoman isn't drenched in her own blood, she is still drawn so hideously that I find the book to be incredibly off-putting. Her facial expressions are ridiculous.

Date: 2012-02-20 01:33 am (UTC)
autohobbs: (crashed Hobbie)
From: [personal profile] autohobbs
I don't know how anyone could find these images erotic. The bit between Bruce and Selina has obvious sexual tension, but that's all I can see from these. I don't hate these series. It's an obvious step back from the progress that was made with Catwoman, but I think that's on purpose. This is an earlier version I believe, and you can see she's still teetering on line between good and evil. The art is a bit much. I don't really get why March is drawing the way he is. His earlier work on Gotham City Sirens was much better then this, and it's a bit disappointing. That being said, I kind of like when they show a hero as vulnerable. Obviously when that's all they show, it's too much and they're pandering the character out as a victim, but we've seen Catwoman kick massive ass in previous issue. I'm hoping this series gets better, and takes a step in a direction where Selena starts to change her ways a bit. As far as I can tell, this story is showing her hit rock bottom, before she decides to change her ways. (Of course, I can't be sure of this because DC has yet to announce WHAT IS CANON ANYMORE UUUUGHHHH)

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