scans_daily: Earth-2 Batman and Robin: Before and After

Diane Darcy (

aeka) wrote in

scans_daily,
@ 2012-02-28 10:55 am UTC

Entry tags:

char: batman/bruce wayne, char: huntress/robin/helena wayne, title: earth 2, title: world's finest

Earth-2 Batman and Robin: Before and After

DC Source released character sketches of Earth-2 Bruce and Helena, and lets just say....things definitely changed from the original pre-Crisis Earth-2.

So do we remember pre-Crisis Earth-2 Bruce and Helena? Yeah E2 Bruce started off killing people at first, but then stopped doing this and became more of the strict "no-kill" anti-gun hero we know so well.

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And then there's his daughter Helena who, despite also following the strict "no-kill" rule back in the day, showed that she didn't concern herself too much with foe circumstantial deaths.

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And then there's the fact that Daddy Bats didn't allow her to fight crime in a costume.

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So what changed in the new DCU? In a word? PLENTY!

From DC's the Source:

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“Who will Batman kill to save his own daughter?” asks EARTH 2 editor Pat McCallum. “Right out of the gate that should tell you we’re dealing with a different kind of Dark Knight here. More ruthless, dangerous…the costume is familiar and yeah, there is a Wayne under the mask, but we’re looking at a man desperate to save the only family he has left. EARTH 2 is about to become a very bad place to be a bad guy.”

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“Helena Wayne has been taught how to be the perfect Robin,” said James Robinson, writer of EARTH 2. “Assured as a detective, fighter, scientist, pilot and all around crime-fighter she’s been groomed by Batman to be the perfect caped manhunter (or should we say manHuntress) when she grows up.”

“Before coming to the main DCU Earth and taking up the mantle of Huntress, Helena Wayne fought crime alongside her father as the Robin to his Batman on Earth-2!” said WORLDS’ FINEST editor Wil Moss. “But how did she come to be on this Earth? And why did she decide to become Huntress? You’ll get some clues in next week’s HUNTRESS #6, but for the real scoop, pick up WORLDS’ FINEST #1!”

Holy fuck. At this rate I'll be acquiring

icon_uk's Robin fetish only with girl Robins in my case. On that note, I think this means there's no longer an Earth-2 Dick, and Helena is her father's first Robin.

May please come fast! XP

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darkknightjrk
2012-02-28 04:51 pm UTC (link)

"On that note, I think this means there's no longer an Earth-2 Dick"

Maybe, maybe not--maybe this is a Damian Wayne and Dick trained him in escrima sticks (those HAVE to be there for a reason), or maybe it is Dick, but perhaps we have a semi-Flashpoint thing going and Thomas Wayne adopted him after his wife and son died and renamed him.

But yeah, while I was kinda looking forward to the Earth Two situation I was expecting, a sort of copy of the original...but I have to admit the fact that it seems completely different seems really, really interesting. I want to dive in and find out about this new world. :D

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aeka
2012-02-28 05:03 pm UTC (link)

I'm pretty sure E2 Batman is still Bruce and DC was only confirming that Batman isn't Dick. I really don't think DC would stray too far from the mark by changing Helena's parentage like that, otherwise they would have been far better off keeping her as Helena Bertinelli.

1) Making her Damian's daughter would take away the appeal of her character.
2) Making that change would especially strip away all the dramatic potential in having her interact with Earth-Prime Bruce and Selina,
3) The idea of Damian and Selina getting together and making a baby is just no *brain bleach*
4) It's an unnecessary change to the character's history. There's no need for an Earth-2 Damian, and the idea of Bruce and Selina having a daughter is far more appealing than just making her a descendent of the Waynes. I also think making that change would piss off a lot of fans of this character.

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pyrotwilight
2012-02-28 05:16 pm UTC (link)

Well depends how you see it. There's a lot of dramatic potential with her meeting Damian then. Seeing your father as a kid would be very awkward. And seeing a Batman and Catwoman who are highly unlike your parents would be pretty surprising for Helena as well.

As for three that's assuming Catwoman is Selina here. Who knows who she might be here.

As for four they've kind of thrown out the real draws to E-2 already so very little would surprise me in regards to changes. Especially since a lot of fans are still bothered by Helena Wayne using the name of Bertinelli.

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aeka
2012-02-28 05:28 pm UTC (link)

To quote Paul Levitz:

“Nrama: That name Bertinelli in there is a fun tease, but this is Helena Wayne, right?

Levitz: We will ultimately know that she’s Helena Wayne of Earth 2, but whether Bruce will know that she’s Helena Wayne, or how Bruce or Selina Kyle will come to know that and react to that, we’ll see. I’m still working out all the dramatic potential in it. Obviously, there’s enormous pent up possibility in those moments, and you want to make all that drama work. And you don’t want to do all that in issue #1, panel #1. You want to take people on an interesting ride.”

I think this alone pretty much suggests (if not outright confirm) that Helena's Earth-2 parents are Bruce and Selina, and everyone looking for subtle hints to the contrary are looking too far into things.

I know this is a reboot, but like I said, I don't think DC will stray too far from the concept of the character. I also think that it if they're going to establish Earth-2 versions of the Trinity, it would make sense to make Earth-2 Bruce a different character from the main DCU one.

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	no subject atom_punk 2012-02-28 05:05 pm UTC (link)
	Really loving Helena-Robin's costume! Very distinctly a Robin, but enough variation to make it feel fresh and unique. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 3 comments) (Show 3 comments)

	no subject icon_uk 2012-02-28 06:50 pm UTC (link)
	I generally like it, but the R's on the kneepads are a bit of overkill. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

	no subject atom_punk 2012-02-28 07:40 pm UTC (link)
	I don't know, I kinda like them for pure sillyness appeal. I can imagine some hilarious panels where Helena pulls a kneestrike, leaving a trail of unconscious baddies with "Я"-shaped bruises everywhere she goes. But that's headcanon territory XD (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject aeka 2012-02-29 04:27 am UTC (link)
	I can imagine some hilarious panels where Helena pulls a kneestrike, leaving a trail of unconscious baddies with "Я"-shaped bruises everywhere she goes. And now I'm suddenly picturing a thug who had their balls kneed by Robin!Helena and kept a souvenir. >.o I don't think this is unlikely if the current Huntress mini is any indication. :P (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject pyrotwilight 2012-02-28 05:06 pm UTC (link)
	Yep. I'm still going with my idea that Batman is Damian here though I figured Bruce would still be the father of both which seems unlikely now. Of course if Damian is Batman one can only wonder who Catwoman will be on this Earth. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 5 comments) (Show 5 comments)

	no subject aeka 2012-02-28 05:08 pm UTC (link)
	Read my above comment on why I think Damian is unlikely. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 4 comments) (Show 4 comments)

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pyrotwilight
2012-02-28 05:11 pm UTC (link)

Oh I saw them but I still have the gut feeling it's Damian. Especially since they keep making sure to refer to Batman as Batman or a Wayne. The fact they've yet to call Batman Bruce Wayne means there's something going on here. Though some have suggested Batman might even be Thomas Wayne similar to his Flashpoint self which would be amusing but less likely.

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aeka
2012-02-28 05:17 pm UTC (link)

Or this is DC simply loving the teasing and speculation that they're deciding to keep E2 Batman a mystery by suggesting he might be someone other than Bruce. They did the same thing with Huntress by suggesting she may still be Helena Bertinelli despite all arrows pointing in Helena Wayne's direction.

Basically, I'm not buying that this is someone other than Bruce and this is nothing short of a marketing tactic to generate interest in the Earth-2 books.

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	no subject filthysize 2012-02-28 05:18 pm UTC (link)
	Even if it is not Bruce, I think it's much more likely that he's Richard Wayne instead of Damian. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject icon_uk 2012-02-28 06:50 pm UTC (link)
	Agreed (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject perletwo 2012-02-28 06:34 pm UTC (link)
	Really loving the armor-ish feel of these costumes, and I love that they're not skintight everywhere - they feel like uniforms, not bodypaint. That is one of the best girl!Robin designs I've ever seen. (Reply to this)

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kenn_el
2012-02-28 06:42 pm UTC (link)

If any character was 'successful' in the Flashpoint series, I'd assume that the Thomas Wayne Batman was, and he could be the basis for this version. If the catalyst for Helena becoming a costumed heroine is no longer her mother's death, then perhaps the death of older sibling/half-sibling Bruce? And Martha? Maybe Thomas married Earth 2 Selina, who then gave birth to Helena?
In any case, this is why Earth2 is so much cooler to me than Rebooted Earth. So many possibilities to play with! They get to flesh out and expand an entire Earth, while those working on the Earth 1 books have to condense past histories into a near-strangling continuity. Which is why I would much rather have read a Helena/Kara World's Finest taking place ON Earh 2.
However a world without Dick is too awful to contemplate.

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atom_punk
2012-02-28 07:45 pm UTC (link)

Personally I was little upset by the introduction of Earth-2 in general (key word "was"). Once again it feels like the part of the reboot meant to make it more accessible to new readers seems to be conspicuously absent.

I know for a fact that trying to explain the pre-reboot multiverse with the post-reboot multiverse to my non-comic reading friends will make them shy away from getting into comics.

That said, I second the opinion that there are possibilities to mess with and those are also possibilities for interesting new stories and character interactions, so tentative optimism here.

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kenn_el
2012-02-28 07:57 pm UTC (link)

I wouldn't have minded if they'd done an ACTUAL reboot of the regular DCU, as the major problems with the NewU IMO arise from shoehorning decades of history into five years or so, while trying to still placate fans of the better-selling brand names. Earth 2 gives them the opportunity to do some really fun stuff, and I hope they take advantage of it! (I can't imagine being a writer/artist at DC and NOT wanting to work in an area where my hands aren't tied by what's happening in other books or what the Editorial mandate is for a particular character!) I'm legitimately excited.

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	no subject icon_uk 2012-02-28 06:54 pm UTC (link)
	“Who will Batman kill to save his own daughter?” Which makes me wonder, are they referring to Helena here? Or even, if Dick is the E-2 Batman (and the escrima stick seems a clue) then it could be referring to HIS daughter. (Reply to this)

	no subject thefiretonight 2012-02-28 07:48 pm UTC (link)
	The top part of her uniform, the red mask and green shoulders, reminds me a lot of DCnU Jaybird's Robin. (Reply to this)

	no subject darkblade 2012-02-28 08:43 pm UTC (link)
	I look at that Batman costume and all I can think about is the horrid Penance costume. (Reply to this)

	no subject thanekos 2012-02-28 11:41 pm UTC (link)
	I can't help but imagine Earth-2 Bats moves like this. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 4 comments) (Show 4 comments)

	no subject fredneil.livejournal.com 2012-02-29 12:10 am UTC (link)
	I'd rather think of him moving like this. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

	no subject big_daddy_d 2012-02-29 12:38 am UTC (link)
	All those are good, but how about Bats moving like this? (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject icon_uk 2012-02-29 02:12 am UTC (link)
	I ALWAYS imagine that's how Batman moves when no one is watching... (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject eyz 2012-02-29 08:58 am UTC (link)
	This was just an excuse to repost a link to that video, right? XD (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject zapbiffpow 2012-02-29 12:34 am UTC (link)
	Nice to see a female Robin back. The Batman design looks great at some parts, although the pencilling makes it look like he's wearing a pair of schoolboy shorts. (Reply to this)

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big_daddy_d
2012-02-29 12:43 am UTC (link)

In support of the "it could be Damian" argument, they point out how the suit is familiar and to me the suit looks similar to the Batman 666 suit. As for the mother, well who says it has to be a Catwoman? Could be a different woman entirely. Maybe Bruce and Selina are Helena's grandparents (following the logic from Batman: The Brave and the Bold here).

Otherwise, I just think it's Bruce and the fact that they are saying that "a Wayne" is wearing the cowl is a weak attempt to throw us off. Then again, you never know.

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aeka
2012-02-29 02:26 am UTC (link)

Yeah I'm 110% sure Earth-2 Batman is still Bruce with a different personality to establish him as a separate character from the main DCU version. Considering this is Levitz who's rebooting Helena Wayne for the new DCU and he's her creator, I don't see why he would change her parentage, and even less so if he's planning on having the main DCU Bruce and Selina react to her being their daughter on Earth-2.

If this reboot has taught me anything at all about DC's marketing is that DC likes stirring the pot by planting seeds of uncertainty in their fans as a way to generate interest in their books. As I stated earlier, they did the exact same stunt with Huntress by suggesting she was still Helena Bertinelli even when all arrows were pointing in Helena Wayne's direction, and she still turned out to be Wayne. DC didn't sway me then, they're not swaying me now. Sometimes the presence of an elephant in the room is as obvious as it looks.

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	no subject gamerguy 2012-02-29 06:35 am UTC (link)
	I was kind of hoping Earth-2 would be, well, something else. Maybe more WW-2-like. Spine-armor Batman and that 'Robin' are not what I had in mind. (Reply to this)

	no subject jcbaggee 2012-02-29 08:23 am UTC (link)
	raises hand I've been away, so has anyone pointed out that this Batman has a stick? Any chance this is actually Dick and E2 Bruce died horrifically at some point, or was it confirmed as being Bruce already? (Reply to this)

	no subject eyz 2012-02-29 08:58 am UTC (link)
	Not a fan of the bulky/oversaturated with details/messy/complicated Batman design. Even though, I gotta admit I love that girl-Robin look! Fantastic!! <3 (Reply to this)

	no subject tauruschick12 2012-02-29 12:23 pm UTC (link)
	Why do I have this strange feeling that this new Batman is Thomas Wayne, and Catwoman was Martha Wayne? (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

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airawyn
2012-03-01 05:42 am UTC (link)

Huh, that could be it. I've been trying to figure out how Bruce Wayne's daughter could be running around in costume at the same time as the older generation Justice Society. That would make Helena basically Rule 63 Bruce, then, which... could work. Though I think they've mentioned Selina and Bruce as Helena's parents by name in interviews, though that's not actually canon until it's in print.

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	no subject airawyn 2012-03-01 05:37 am UTC (link)
	It's a long shot, but I would love if it turned out to be Jason Todd (Wayne) as Batman. It'd fit the more violent Batman concept and I'd love to see big brother Jason and little sis Helena working together. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject gerardotejada 2012-03-08 07:24 pm UTC (link)
	Forget Jason Todd, What about Damian/Helena, not only would they be rivals but Damian would constantly remember Helena that "father dont aprove", cause damian is a big hipocrite like that and also a troll. He would do It for the LULZ (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject theatervine 2012-03-08 04:42 am UTC (link)
	Interesting, I can't wait to see how this shakes out! (Reply to this)

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