icon_uk: (Default)
[personal profile] icon_uk posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Over at Bleeding Cool they've published a scanned letter column from the most recent Avengers Academy, reacting to #23.

Warning for homophobic content.



Issue 23 being where Striker came out of the closet

Mods, I THINK a scanned lettercolumn will count as a legality scan, but just in case I'll scrounge up a cover shortly.



It is indeed nice to see a polite letter from someone outlining their objections, and even nicer to see them being put, just as politely, in their place.


Date: 2012-02-29 08:09 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: (Bitch Please)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
... i only got through the second full paragraph before feeling the need to vomit...

i'm going back in...

should there be a homophobia trigger warning?

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Date: 2012-02-29 08:14 pm (UTC)
nezchan: yum. (Strange sammich)
From: [personal profile] nezchan
Nice response on Gage's part.

There's one line of though that I was sort of hoping he'd include, is that a number of people already reading the comic are also homosexual, and by gum they'd probably like it if they could read about someone like themselves in a book they like. I mean, I've sort of given up on finding positive depictions of trans characters in comics, but I'd like somebody out there to get some joy.
Edited (more better) Date: 2012-02-29 08:15 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-02-29 09:02 pm (UTC)
whitesycamore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] whitesycamore
I particularly hate how bigots like the letter writer presume to speak for all heterosexuals when they talk about how 'alienating' gay characters are.

As a straight lady, I find the mainstream heteronormative, gender sterotypical approach to sexuality far more alienating.

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Date: 2012-02-29 08:26 pm (UTC)
bjornwilde: (Thing: BigGrin)
From: [personal profile] bjornwilde
Oh wow, I think I need to pick this book up again. I had cut it due to my budget constraints but this letter makes me want to support it in the hope such writing and risks in writing continue!
Edited Date: 2012-02-29 08:26 pm (UTC)

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Date: 2012-02-29 08:30 pm (UTC)
daphnie_1: Steve from "The Avengers" looking shocked (Marvel | Steve | but why would you do th)
From: [personal profile] daphnie_1
The person who wrote in posted it on Tumblr and was rather pleased it had been printed. I think I sat for about ten minutes going 'o____o'

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Date: 2012-02-29 08:53 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Since when did it become the thing that being gay or dealing with sexual issues was a 'political' thing? The dubious content of the guy's letter aside, that really, really bothers me. Why is Gage pushing his 'politics' when it comes to featuring gay characters? Politics has nothing to do with sexuality and gender issues. Or at least, it shouldn't. Isn't Gage just.. Writing homosexual characters?

And again, I like how the guy writing the letter treats the comic like some kind of sordid gay haven, full of stuff that he doesn't like. It's a testament to Gage that he basically refutes it all in an incredibly calm fashion; I haven't even started reading the first trade of AA and I could point out Hazmat and Mettle as a couple. It makes me wonder if the writer of the letter actually read any of the other issues and just got the last one so he could have something to complain about.

Also, in terms of minorities.. I think the guy needs to read up on what a minority is - But both, again, Hazmat and Mettle, I believe, would qualify instantly. A white guy of any variant, on the other hand, is pretty much the most common character in the business. Also - A WHITE BUSINESSMAN? COUGHCOUGHTONYFUCKINGSTARKCOUGHCOUGH.

Date: 2012-02-29 08:55 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
I feel, having read that back, that 'sordid gay haven' might sound a little nasty, so I'll be clear and say that I naturally don't mean any offense to gay people and am just trying to imagine how this tool perceives this book.

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Date: 2012-02-29 08:57 pm (UTC)
whitesycamore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] whitesycamore
Yeah dude, it's been YEARS since I saw a heterosexual kiss in mainstream comics.

Fuck taking the moral highground, I just want to punch that moron in the face once for every time he uses the phrase "alternate lifestyle."

And then a couple times more just for fun.

Date: 2012-03-01 03:54 am (UTC)
krait: a sea snake (krait) swimming (Default)
From: [personal profile] krait
You handle the face-punching, and I'll handle the groin-kicking.

We shall be TEAM SUPER-SMACKDOWN for the win!

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Date: 2012-02-29 09:16 pm (UTC)
pyrotwilight: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pyrotwilight
Pfff. I remember reading that letter when I got my issue. At first I thought the letter was being written with clear sarcasm and going to end with a gotcha until I realized that the letter writer was serious. I was somewhat dying over the consistent use of the word politics as well. I mean damn.

I'm actually amused at how big of a deal it seems to be to the letter writer given the relatively short amount of page space it really even took up in the issue. Which I liked because there seems to at least be an effort on Gage's part to not make it the biggest part of Striker's character but a part of him just as it is in real life.

And I say this all not even being a fan of Striker (well I like his and Veil's friendship). The story was done rather well.

Date: 2012-02-29 09:25 pm (UTC)
crabby_lioness: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crabby_lioness
Stryker is not a likable character, although he is a sympathetic portrayal of an impulsive teenage idiot who may grow out of it if he lives long enough.

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Date: 2012-02-29 09:50 pm (UTC)
abriel: (pic#972304)
From: [personal profile] abriel
There are very few people I know of who can so very politely and subtly tell someone to go shove a knife up their arses, and Mr. Gage is obviously one of those people. Bravo to him.

Date: 2012-02-29 10:12 pm (UTC)
skemono: I read dead racists (Default)
From: [personal profile] skemono
Ever since I read a letter in Green Lantern from some idiot ranting about how they were dropping the book since Terry came out as gay, I've wanted the editors/writers to respond to such nonsense. As much as I like that they did here, I admit I'd have liked something more... emphatic ("Oh no, I'm penetrating your bubble of denial that prevents you from accepting that gay people exist and they're as normal as straight people? BOO FUCKING HOO. Grow up, or quit buying the books--I don't care if we don't get money from bigoted jerks.") But I'm sure that if he'd been anything more than perfectly nice to this "other point of view" someone higher up would've restrained him ("Christos, no! We want every money!")

Having a gay character isn't a political statement, it's a reflection of reality. Sexual orientation isn't a "lifestyle"--a lifestyle is how you live your life, and sexual orientation only affects with whom you live it. Having gay characters doesn't make the book any more "sexual" than having straight characters. Fuck you, Smith!

Date: 2012-02-29 10:25 pm (UTC)
stubbleupdate: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stubbleupdate
Yeah, I wish that Kirkman had slapped that one letter writer down when he wrote in to complain about Monster Girl being loose.

Considering how he treats fans who complain about Atom Eve being fat (Fuck you), I sort of expected more.

Date: 2012-02-29 10:47 pm (UTC)
wonderwomanhero: (Default)
From: [personal profile] wonderwomanhero
Someone said something shocking will happen next issue of Young Avengers...which leads me to think Billy and Teddy will finally go all the way or something.

Putting that aside, people like the letter writer disgust me.

Date: 2012-03-05 08:11 pm (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
I imagine if it makes it out on to the stands within 3 months of the last issue, that will be pretty shocking.

Date: 2012-02-29 10:56 pm (UTC)
stubbleupdate: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stubbleupdate
I thought that heterosexist was the acceptable term and that homophobic is classed as ablist.

Or am I behind the times?

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Date: 2012-02-29 11:01 pm (UTC)
the_spoiler: (Default)
From: [personal profile] the_spoiler
The more I hear about AA, the more I want to pick it up. (One down, one to go, right?

Date: 2012-02-29 11:47 pm (UTC)
thanekos: Kouhei " Principal Garren " Hayami, the Libra Zodiarts, is bugged. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
#23's " American religious nuts " were kind of interesting, actually; you had everyone doing the " come on, you're really going to kill a kid cause he's a mutant " but in the typical snappy rebuttal way, and you had them going " No, seriously, this kid is an abomination " like they were trying to appeal to reason.

And then the kid turned out to be Hybrid, so they were kind of right after all (at the least, it's finally one in the justifiable column for the Purifiers).

Date: 2012-03-01 02:23 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
You know a white conservative bussiness christian man has a high possibillity of beign a racist/homophobe/etc. Sad but true, and after being in new york for a while I should said the oposite is also true, with so many crime in the streets you start wondering how is It that decent kids grow in the poor neighborhoods.

How can anyone dismiss cultural stereotypes when you read leters like this? I however think comics should be a place to highlight the conflicts of exeptional individuals, like the frictions Morrison gave between Tattooed Man and Black Lightining on Final Crisis. That said Gage plays very well with how types of people see each other, how they struggle with the stereotypes the society present them and how they triumph over them or how they are overwhelmed by them.

That is in not one way politically correct, Gage can put his characters in uncomfortably situations like when Striker thought about how beign sexualy asaulted afected his own sexuality. The mention that Striker could be gay because of a child trauma is not politically correct and is not a social comentary about gay people but on how this thoughts afect someone.

Is curious how the "right wing" complains about politicaly correct behaviour, when they are the ones that should be grateful, the non confrontational and comformist lenguage that is spread throught PC helps to protect the ridiculous claims by the "minorities" (seriously?) that are the white masses, as PC stops any outrageous hate or revolution against them.

Warren Ellis is not politically correct, I dont think the right wingers would approve his comics.

Gage and Hickman are the best writers of this times, is nice to see they are as smart as talented

Date: 2012-03-01 11:07 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] shadur
Also, despite #23's complaints, heterosexual white male conservative christians feature with great regularity in the comic -- pick any scene with more than three bystanders, odds are that at least one of them counts. It's just that he doesn't notice them unless one is portrayed as a villain.

And if he really wants to see one put into the limelight... Well, I wouldn't object to seeing more tales of Bill, born of Bills.

Date: 2012-03-01 02:53 am (UTC)
drmcninja: (Default)
From: [personal profile] drmcninja
This just strikes me as uneducated more than it does asshole-ish. I don't see this guy as a bad person, I see him subscribing to a large amount of hatred put out by anti-gay groups. He isn't bad, just uneducated. I wonder if he's ever actually talked to a gay person before? Probably not. I thin he was just proud that he got his voice out there and heard, because even if it reads terrible to a lot of people, to me (and I suspect to him) he came off as trying to make his point in a respectful manner listing what he thought were legitimate reasons. But he got his voice out there, and I can see that as something he would be proud of.

And like it or not, this is a political issue nowadays. It shouldn't be, but it is, because as the Republican party moves farther and farther right it leans more and more on extremist christianity as its base, and that throws the issue right into politics. There's no helping that. Race and gender are even still a part of politics. That's just the way it is nowadays. I wish it wasn't, but it is.

Date: 2012-03-01 03:42 am (UTC)
werehawk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] werehawk
This is not completely unrelated. But groups like this..
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2012/02/american-family-association-targets-kevin-keller-comics-at-toys-r-us/

...really tick me off. I am a parent and I just emailed Toys R Us (contacted them through their website and my registered login) saying I think they should keep the Kevin Keller Archie comics on the shelf. Any other parents here should do the same.

Date: 2012-03-01 05:14 am (UTC)
auggie18: (Stony)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
In all fairness, a sub-group of the AFA tried getting JC Penny to fire Ellen from being their spokeswoman. JC Penny told them to go soak their heads. JC Penny's sales went up. (I actually went and bought something just to support that move.)


Toys R Us should take note of that.

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Date: 2012-03-01 04:34 am (UTC)
golden_orange: trust me, i'm wearing a vegetable. (Default)
From: [personal profile] golden_orange
Seriously, I cannot be the only one who's really sick of the ongoing oppression of conservatives, Christians and businessmen. It must be really hard being among the most powerful and privileged groups in western society.

Won't someone think of them for a change?!

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Date: 2012-03-01 07:49 am (UTC)
suzene: (Default)
From: [personal profile] suzene
Gage was also pretty cool in dealing with a fan who wasn't happy that Marvel's latest queer character was a victim of sexual abuse.

Seriously, writers, "sorry, I'll try to do better next time" isn't always easy, but Christ, it's not that hard either!

Date: 2012-03-01 01:58 pm (UTC)
kiev4am: (dropbears)
From: [personal profile] kiev4am
As much as I applaud and respect Gage's tone and the detailed, thorough way he dealt with this letter, it always pains me when people on the receiving end of a homophobic scolding/rant/whatever start by *thanking* the writer for their politeness - as if the basic incivility and inhumaneness of the homophobic POV can be lessened by the fact that they 'said it nicely.' That letter is carefully worded, but I don't see that its underlying sentiments are any different from those of a guy yelling 'get these perverts out of my fucking comics!' I don't think he should get points for avoiding outright abuse when his opinion is in itself abusive; he thinks homosexuality is a 'lifestyle choice' which is so morally wrong that children should never have to see it in comics, and that its presence in AA invalidates *everything* he'd previously admired in Gage's writing. That's hate, right there; he's just trying very hard to make it pass for discourse.

(as an aside, someone called Jerry Smith who I assume to be the same guy has also been active on discussions I've seen about One Million Moms vs. Archie/Toys 'r' Us. Same points, that homosexuality is a big political statement shoved down readers' throats, that you can hardly open a comic without seeing The Gay (really?), that no rationale is ever good enough to include it, and that he won't be buying Archie ever again etc. etc. And I've just remembered a very familiar rant and argument on PAD's blog after Rictor and Shatterstar kissed, and on checking, yep, it's the same guy. He's kind of a professional homophobic-comicbook-dropper.)

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Well-

Date: 2012-03-01 03:07 pm (UTC)
steverodgers5: (Default)
From: [personal profile] steverodgers5
Christos Gage was my favourite comic book writer and he still is. One of the other depressing things about this post is being reminded again of how much the book is struggling. I really wish I wasn't about to lose my job, so that that I could buy the book more often.

I just dont't understand how the garbage put out by Loeb, Fraction, Bendis, JMS, etc sells so much more than titles done by writers who seem to be putting much more effort into their work. Depresses the hell out of me..

Date: 2012-03-02 12:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fredneil.livejournal.com
While this isn't something I find particularly bothersome, I've gotten the impression that when a character is described as Christian or Muslim, it's because that character's religion plays a significant part in his story, but when a character is Jewish, that character is most often Jewish in an ethnic sense, but generally non-practicing. Is my impression correct?

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Date: 2012-03-02 05:48 pm (UTC)
endis_ni: (Default)
From: [personal profile] endis_ni
Eleven.

The amount of times I muttered "oh, do fuck off" in my best Home Counties accent while reading that letter. That's sadly not the most intelligent response, which is why I'm so impressed Christos Gage keeping things polite, measured, intelligent, while utterly taking apart that letter.

Date: 2012-03-04 02:49 pm (UTC)
blackruzsa: (Default)
From: [personal profile] blackruzsa
The sad part is, the more polite someone is when talking like that, the more bigoted they are. So I'd rather take a raving lunatic who people can't take seriously over some guy who sounds reasonable while spouting complete bullshit.

And wow, saying gay relationships being portrayed is political is like saying there's a quota for the number of black people that should appear in a comic book. As stupid as it sounds and more.

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