thespis: ([birds of prey] yay oracle)
Jess ([personal profile] thespis) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily2012-04-05 06:14 pm

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Just a little Dinah/Diana sparring scene from Birds of Prey #68 that makes me happy. Because I need something to take my mind off the colossal awful that Azzarello is inflicting on Wondy.

icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-04-05 09:11 am (UTC)(link)
Sigh, between this and Donna and Kory regularly duking it out with staffs in the old Perez Titans era, two female best friends in mock combat is something that, whilst not a personal turn on (though any of those four would probably be enough to make me all sorts of curious), is always enormous fun!

Can I have this Diana back please?
q99: (Default)

[personal profile] q99 2012-04-05 11:19 am (UTC)(link)
Yea, I like it when they do this too :)

Or just sparing between heroes in general! Diana and Bruce. Dinah and Cass. Wildcat and Dinah. It's usually fun.
jeyl: (Default)

[personal profile] jeyl 2012-04-05 11:20 am (UTC)(link)
I also want her mother back to. And her fellow Amazons.
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-04-05 11:27 am (UTC)(link)
Works for me... I've been thinking of digging out the Perez "Birth of the Amazons" sequence just for contrast.
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[personal profile] crabby_lioness 2012-04-05 01:56 pm (UTC)(link)
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[personal profile] bruinsfan 2012-04-07 05:12 am (UTC)(link)
I wouldn't worry too much. It took what, twenty three years from Action Comics #1 to "Flash of Two Worlds," then twenty four to Crisis on Infinite Earths, then nine years to Zero Hour, then eleven years to Infinite Crisis, then about five to Flashpoint? If the pattern holds true DCnU should get totally revamped by a Green Lantern crossover event around 2017. And then the rate of reboots will speed up again and put the mainstream DC universe in competition with the Legion for which gets retconned more often.

[personal profile] darkknightjrk 2012-04-05 03:15 pm (UTC)(link)
See, that's the thing--I do see this Diana in Azzarello's book, he just made her world a little darker.
atom_punk: (Default)

[personal profile] atom_punk 2012-04-05 03:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Ditto. I made a post regarding my position on DCNu Diana before but to paraphrase, I don't have the same objections other people do with the change to the Amazons. Because at the end of the day I am reading a story about Diana, about Wonder Woman, not the Amazons.

Are the Amazons a big part of who Wonder Woman is? Yes. But that is not the be-all end-all of her character. She wouldn't be as great a character and wouldn't have endured for so many years if her only notable trait was "she is an Amazon".

Does that mean I'm totally ok with this new backstory for the Amazons? No. But I'm still invested enough in the story that I want to keep reading.

And if something happens in the DCNu Wonder Woman storyline that totally turns me away from it, I'll put it down and wait for the next story, or the next writer, or the next reboot. Because it will happen.

[personal profile] darkknightjrk 2012-04-05 03:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah--to me, what I found interesting about the Amazons wasn't so much that they were paragons of virtue or anything (when you look at the concept with modern eyes, it doesn't quite work as a utopic society, IMO), but that they were a culture alien from our modern one, which taught her how to be a warrior. That's still what they are now.

And hell, the book itself gives out a whole lot of possible retcons or explanations--from Eros saying that Aphrodite isn't as pure as she appears, to the Smith himself saying that all the Gods lie for their own self-interest. Not to mention that the whole point of showing Diana try to free her brothers was to show that things aren't always as they appear. I really doubt that this is all that Azz is going to do with the Amazons.

[personal profile] darkknightjrk 2012-04-05 03:45 pm (UTC)(link)
I think that's exactly what Azz did--he slowly showed that the Amazons weren't what they appeared. And honestly, the Amazons are inherently problematic, and most people seem to accept it because of 70 years of them being around.

Let me put it to you this way--when we talk about the Amazons, they're classic and shouldn't be changed. When we talk about the island Tyroc was born in with the LSH, it becomes laughable and no one really likes it.

[personal profile] darkknightjrk 2012-04-05 04:28 pm (UTC)(link)
I think he is using issues associated with Themyscira--he basically created an inverse of Greek/Roman society where, instead of having rampant misogyny, it's based on isolationism and misandry, and that could easily describe Themyscira all the way down to the Golden Age.

And I think it enhances Diana's story in one respect--before when it was portrayed more utopic, it made it feel like Diana wasn't all that special. She just came from the most absolute perfect upbringing. Now, it's especially clear that only Diana, who was always a little outside of her society and dared to venture into the Mortal World, could ever become Wonder Woman.

[personal profile] darkknightjrk 2012-04-06 03:27 am (UTC)(link)
I can see how the Amazons of old myths were meant to be misogynist ideas from the crusty old dudes writing things down at the time, but I was interpreting it as misandry in that the Amazons considered themselves the better gender because the presence of men was stripped away.

And honestly, while I thought Gail's run had some good moments, from what I've read, as soon as it got back to the island the book became boring as hell. To be fair, I haven't read The Circle (I believe I started reading the book during Rise of the Olympians, something like that), so maybe that part is good, but really the high-points of that run for me was the team-ups with Black Canary and Power Girl.

I will agree that there are some big differences between the two societies--the key one being the seeming lack of immortality, causing the need to keep the society alive and creating the awful siren behavior that fans aren't too pleased about in the first place. It might also explain why these Amazons are more man-hating--after several generations, their philosophies and their legends can be distorted pretty bad, and it's easier to hate a group if you don't have any experience or see a lot of them, if that makes any sense.

[personal profile] darkknightjrk 2012-04-06 05:44 am (UTC)(link)
See, that's the thing--while the ruthlessness and the generational aspect is new, the isolation and believing men cannot step foot in their society else they ruin paradise is inherent and core to the Amazons of Paradise Island.

Look at previous takes like the Justice League cartoon--Diana brings the League to help her save the island from Felix Faust, and what does she get? She gets banished for bringing the men that helped save her people.

Even if this take on them is a little more...extreme than previous takes, the "man-hating" thing is still core to the Amazons, at least until Diana ventures out to Man's World and shows them that they don't need to separate themselves from it anymore.
filthysize: (Default)

[personal profile] filthysize 2012-04-05 03:08 pm (UTC)(link)
They're teleporting in that last panel, right?

You know what, don't tell me. I'm imagining an awesome waterfall shower that they're having together.
halloweenjack: (Default)

[personal profile] halloweenjack 2012-04-06 01:24 am (UTC)(link)
Great minds think alike.

[personal profile] jfurioso 2012-04-06 03:16 am (UTC)(link)
I should draw that. Give me a bit of time and I'll get back to ya.

[personal profile] darkknightjrk 2012-04-06 03:28 am (UTC)(link)
Dinah and Diana bathing under a waterfall together?


Yes. Hell yes you should draw that.
big_daddy_d: (Default)

[personal profile] big_daddy_d 2012-04-06 12:17 am (UTC)(link)
Wondy kicking ass in plain clothes....I'm turned on.

[personal profile] darkknightjrk 2012-04-06 03:31 am (UTC)(link)
It's definitely a good example of showing you can draw a lady to be throwing a good fight and look hot as hell at the same time (there are a couple of ass shots here and there, but they seem to make sense or at least it looks like Benes is trying to do a dynamic panel and drawing the ass is an extra bonus).
lascoden: Anarky (Default)

[personal profile] lascoden 2012-04-08 01:24 pm (UTC)(link)
That's the weird thing about Benes: He gets a lot of criticism for throwing a lot of fanservice into his artwork, but he's actually a really good artist. He does great with the action scenes, and is not bad when it comes to faces. He just throws an ass shot in there every chance he gets.

[personal profile] darkknightjrk 2012-04-08 05:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Hell, I'd go as far as to say that he's gotten even better over time with stuff like anatomy and clothing (I couldn't help but notice how weirdly Diana's t-shirt was sitting on her throughout the scene).

One thing I've noticed is that he seems to have a similar style to almost every other Brazillian artist that's also in comics--guys like Diego Bernard, Mariah Benes, even Adriana Melo, who gets a little more detail in, has a lot in common.
lascoden: Anarky (Default)

[personal profile] lascoden 2012-04-08 05:46 pm (UTC)(link)
He definitely has gotten better. I loved the art on the latest Simone Birds of Prey, especially when you compare it to some of the...questionable choices right before the reboot. And it's lightyears above what most artists do.

Don't forget Ivan Reis. That man is probably my favorite artist at DC right now. And you're right. you can sometimes see similarities in the art style of people of different nations, which makes sense. They would grow up influenced by the art that they see, what's around them, their heroes. It seems to be that way with other forms of art, and things like architecture. Also: Didn't know Benes was Brazilian. I learned something today.

[personal profile] darkknightjrk 2012-04-08 05:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Certainly explains the...bodaciousness of a lot of his pin-ups, don't it?

[personal profile] darkknightjrk 2012-04-08 11:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Ah, my bad--I assumed he had a fairly uninterrupted run until he dropped off.

[personal profile] gerardotejada 2012-04-09 01:46 am (UTC)(link)
I am so pissed off of how DC seems to over exploit the Green Arrow/Black Canary drama.

And when they try to get a happy ending to all that we get a new series from Winnick or Krul.

Ollie and Dinah were once the epitome of how to write a mature super hero comic, along with Morrison Animal Man (happy days, not for everyone but at least for me).