Red Hood and the Outlaws #8

[aubreys_master]

I post here...never. I don't think I've posted anything since I joined ages ago. I'm such a lurker. But I didn't see this scene posted yet, so I thought I'd do the honors. If I messed it up somehow, broke any rules, or missed these pages being posted somehow, please feel free to tell me and I'll do what I can to fix it. :)



Jason and co are in Gotham saving some kids at a hospital when Alfred sends out his distress signal, concerning the Night of the Owls stuff. Jason is about to leave when Roy points out that a lot of people are on the job already, but Tim picks up that Jason has intercepted their call. He asks Jason to stick around and help, and Kory -- Kori, whatever -- asks Jason if he knows Tim.

This lovely little flashback occurs.





I've wanted some nice brotherly love from Tim and Jason since he came back to life in 2005. I know a lot of people are put off by the reboot, but I think this made it worthwhile for me. (Although the idea of Alfred's cooking being anything but perfect is clearly absurd. :P And I don't like how Tim's being portrayed in Teen Titans... But that's a story for another day.)

Did anyone else love the idea of Tim and Jason being buds as much as I do?

Comments

[abriel]

That's actually pretty sweet.

"Like paste"....damn. And here I was always under the impression that Alfred is a kickass cook...

[icon_uk]

Clearly a LOT of previous Tim/Jason encounters have been erased...

It's a sweet moment I grant you. (Though speaking ill of Alfred's cooking? NO ONE has EVER spoken ill of Alfred's cooking, and for good reason.)

[sun_man]

I hate this. The only thing Tim and Jason should be doing is beating the snot out of each other.

[aubreys_master]

Yeah. I guess Alfred's waffle-making skills were casualties of the reboot? Who knows?

[aubreys_master]

Haha! Out of all the things that have been changed/lost/erased from canon by the reboot, Tim and Jay's animosity is something I'm definitely not heartbroken to see go.

[auggie18]

Aw. This is massively out of character. Cute, but massively out of character.

I'm conflicted on this.

[aubreys_master]

Or it's a new side of a character that we never got to see because Jason spent most of his time, around the Bats and Tim in particular, in a hysterical rage, before. That might be a more optimistic way to look at it?

[sun_man]

It was pretty much exactly what I feared. Extremely OOC, complete disregard of their previous relationship, killing attempts are just shrugged off and everything we get is pretty much a “Sorry, that I tried to kill you, bro.” over a shared breakfast.

Which in itself reads a lot like a bad fanfiction. Eating waffles together on a veranda? Really? Really?

“Hey, I tried to kill you and you actually hate what I represent, but I am cool with that. Lets be bros.”

“Oh, okay fine. I am sorry too that I tried to kill you, lets eat waffles.”

(I wish I would be joking but that is pretty much how it goes)

I was also extremely baffled by how their relationship was explained. Apparently, Tim assigned Jason to get him information about Cassie. But why he did that is not explained.

How did this happen? What made Tim consider asking Jason? How did he find Jason? Why did Jason agree to do this for him? Because he got information in return? But why did Tim not sort out any other of his actual allies first? Namely Barbara, whose past as Oracle is still intact in the reboot and who was the primary information broker of the Superhero community? Surely she could have helped him with his request? Why Jason?

I really couldn’t wrap my mind around that.

And no, I don’t hate the ship. On the contrary, they could have a really interesting dynamic and I do like the general idea of them getting over themselves and trying to be brothers. But the execution in RHatO #8 was just so poor. So blatantly OOC and illogical.

I will be in my corner, crying.

[auggie18]

The two sorta have issues, though. Deep ones. Tim was pretty much the replacement puppy for Jason, which leads to a lot of their issues. Most of Jason's issues with Daddy Bats that aren't linked to not murdering the Joker are directly linked to Tim replacing him. Maybe with time and a lot of Jason trying to make up for attempting to murder Tim they could become friends, but having that all off-screen makes this seem a little out of nowhere. (If Batman was a fresh start instead of just being compressed, it'd make more sense.)

[aubreys_master]

Maybe I'm happy about my headcanon being put on page and I'm not thinking it through. I'm willing to allow for that. But isn't it more likely than "shrugging off" killing attempts that those issues (and the Teen Titans issue where Jason shows up in the canary yellow tights) never happened in the DCnU? So there would be no need to shrug them off, because they just didn't exist? Johns's run on Teen Titans obviously never happened in the new canon, just judging from what we've seen on the page and even ignoring what we've heard in interviews and stuff. I've seen no evidence that Tim's old Robin book is canon either. So if none of that is canon, then it can't be taken into account and removes a lot of the problems you listed. Doesn't it?

[aubreys_master]

I just posted about this below, but how much of that is canon anymore? Johns's Teen Titans books aren't. There's no evidence that Tim's old Robin book is, and I'm pretty sure that Red Hood: The Lost Days isn't either (since Jason apparently spent that time learning to be a magical ninja now, instead of going straight into bomb making lessons). So is it fair to judge new canon based on older stories that aren't canon anymore?

The DCnU is a separate thing, to me, from "old canon." I loved those older stories as much as anyone -- and more than some people. But I'm also not going to immediately hate everything coming from the new books just because they're new and different. I think they've come up with some cool stuff since the reboot. This is one of those things.

[filthysize]

Kinda knew something like this was coming since Lobdell's on both title. I get that this is OOC, but clearly Lobdell's take on Jason is far less hostile than Winick's, so I guess there is some relaunch-shifting going on here and that this Jason was just estranged from the Bat-family since coming back, rather than blatantly antagonistic.

Eh, I'll allow it.

[auggie18]

Ignoring the Jason's attempt at murdering Tim, everything I said in the original post still stands. Jason should probably still not love the idea that Bruce immediately ran out and got a shiny new Robin right after Jason died. Granted, this should lead him to hate Bruce, not Tim, but I'm not seeing him having much in the way of good feelings for the kid who took his place. This are problems inherent in the premise of their relationship. Taking out Jason's attempted murders and beatings and you're still left with a kid who was abandoned his whole life being abandoned again for someone else.

Again, I'm okay with this development. I just wish it was, y'know, developed.

[junkurosu]

This is so out of character for both of them. Even with the reboot this feels so much like a bad fanfic where the writer hasn't read anything where the two character meet up.

How the heck did this relationship start? I mean even if major changes were made, it just seems so OOC. This is just horrible writing. It has it's good moments, but damn.

I mean why the heck just create some original characters instead of stripping away the essential traits and relationship dynamics that made characters the characters.

I'll be in my angry dome.

[shadowpsykie]

.... i'll be.... over here.... BRO!!!! *sniffle.....*

[shadowpsykie]

me too!

[shadowpsykie]

for me. all the things to get wiped out in the reboot im glad this was part of it. I love the new jason, he took the hints that other creators have used and made them more prevelant... they are still snarky to eachother. but they are family... they don't get along, but that does not mean they don't care. Jason always cared, which is why he was always so angry.

[shadowpsykie]

i agree.

i for one LOVE this new take on these characters. Tim is a bit more pragmatic, Jason has dealt with his rage issues. they are still tim and jason, and as such still have thier quirks and foibles... but they have grown. so what every Jason HAS done, Tim took a pragmatic look to it.

[shadowpsykie]

i;m okay with them hating on Alfred's Waffles. i love that no one has ever TOLD him though...

however... if they touch Alffie's Pancakes.... i will be PISSED :D

[mrstatham]

Who says Barbara's past as Oracle is intact? Where's the evidence of that? Given the current state of the character, I see no evidence that the Barbara currently in Batgirl could have nearly the chops to be Oracle.

[junkurosu]

I'm glad for a lighter Jason too, but I feel like he's been really flat for me.

While I'm okay with Jason and anyone having a better relationship (heck, I write a ton of bat-family drabbles and fixit fics). I would have loved seeing Jason and a hesitant Tim come up with manipulative crimefighting plans. Which results in some gains to a better relationship.

I just feel like this is too much of huge leap. Like we're seeing the destination and not the journey.

Pretty much: this writing makes me angry.

[thefiretonight]

I, for one, am pretty glad that Johns story with Jay attacking Tim at the Tower isn't canon, anymore.

And honestly? I've seen so much fan fic start like this. ;)

[thefiretonight]

Seconded. I don't believe there's even been a mention of Oracle in ANY Bat book, not just Babs'.

[mrstatham]

I don't think it helps that the DCnU's continuity and included-events from the old universe is so clusterfucky that figuring it out would make Stephen Hawking's head spin, but I don't think even Simone is too clear on what she can include.

[biod]

Yeah that sums it up for me.
As much as I want to see the full Bat-fam (including the ladies, you bastards!), we can't just jump to that point out of nowhere.