scans_daily: The Time Cass was Fired

espanolbot (

espanolbot) wrote in

scans_daily,
@ 2012-04-25 10:28 pm UTC

Entry tags:

char: alfred pennyworth, char: batgirl/oracle/barbara gordon, char: black bat/batgirl/cassandra cain, creator: dylan horrocks, title: batgirl

The Time Cass was Fired

Following Cass getting an attack of adolescent rebellion, causing her to disobey Bruce for the first time, Bruce realises that he's been using her as a weapon just like her father had, albeit for more altruist reasons. To attempt to make it up to her, he gives her the Steph Brown Treatment, and sacks her for what he considers to be her own good, so she can live a life truly on her own terms without being used as a tool by him or anyone else.

Unfortunately, firing someone with no friends, qualifications, or skills outside of those that can be used to fight crime and no clue as to what alternatives are avaliable goes about as well as you'd imagine...

Cass steals a spare costume and goes after a group of drug dealers that she's fought a number of times before, only for Batman to show up to stop her just as the head of the gang bunges a phial of rage drug at them, causing the pair to go on a fight that wrecked a lot of the city.

Which I can post part of tomorrow if people want. ^^

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	no subject icon_uk 2012-04-25 09:47 pm UTC (link)
	"The man is incapable of expressing any emotion except anger". I got so tired of that iteration of Batman in the 90's and 00's... so very, very tired. And it's not just Steph and Cass he did this to, he fired Dick too... (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 8 comments) (Show 8 comments)

	no subject q99 2012-04-25 11:25 pm UTC (link)
	The thing is there were like 2-3 "Ro-Bat is OVER! He's going to be more expressive now!" stories, they just didn't take until Morrison. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 7 comments) (Show 7 comments)

	no subject icon_uk 2012-04-25 11:34 pm UTC (link)
	And how long do you think it will last after he leaves And I still hold that post Return of Bruce Wayne Batman is just as much of a pain in the ass as the old one. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

	no subject gerardotejada 2012-04-29 03:32 am UTC (link)
	Why? Morrison´s run in Batman was the best since Bruce Wayne Fugitive. I love how he is more obsesed with family than fighting crime, It pushes him to a more human side I think (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject icon_uk 2012-04-29 07:16 am UTC (link)
	Consider how many of this changes stuck after his X-Men run. They were tripping over themselves to restore Magneto, Give us a "real" Xorn, missed the point about Cassie Nove and Ernst and so on... (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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jaybee3
2012-04-26 12:27 am UTC (link)

That's the part I hate. It takes a lot of imagination I guess to write Bruce as a 3-dimensional personality because the default always seems to write him as a jerk (mostly I think they think Bruce's inter-personal skills MUST be his major flaw). Even good writers suffer from this. I remember reading Ed Brubaker's introduction to the 1st Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive trade (a story that had potential but fizzled out into nothing) where he said basically the whole point of the story (which I think lasted something like a year) was to return Bruce from being someone who more Batman than Bruce Wayne to someone who was more Bruce than Batman. After it was over, they had the calmer, nicer Bruce for a few months and then went back into the Bat-jerk with even Rucka and Brubaker doing it - and they were the guys behind Murderer/Fugitive!

So far during the Morrison-era we've had a Bruce Wayne that was more than a mask. But how long that will last I don't know.

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	no subject starwolf_oakley 2012-04-26 03:47 am UTC (link)
	Batman going from "more Batman than Bruce Wayne to someone who was more Bruce than Batman" was supposed to be part of the point of Knightfall/Knightsend and Prodigal as well. And it didn't take. Or at least it didn't take for very long. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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mrstatham
2012-04-26 05:57 am UTC (link)

To be fair, I think Brubaker and Rucka probably got pushed into doing that iteration of Batman - the jerkass version - again once people like Loeb and Lee came in to do Hush, which was the story that did the 180 on Bruce's attitude again.

You can't, after all, expect them to go against the grain there. Loeb/Lee were the bigger creative team and set the tone for the next few years. And I don't think Murderer/Fugitive fizzled out to nothing. To me, it carried along and wrapped up quite a few plot points quite well, as well as involving a good amount of characters in a natural way.

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	no subject gerardotejada 2012-04-29 03:36 am UTC (link)
	I remember that around the time Sasha Bordieux was Bruce´s bodyguard they showed a more human side of Batman, also Alan Grant did a couple of wonderfull stories. But after all Miller [good] work with the character set up all other Itinerations. Morrison was one of the Few great writters that got Bruce into a new territory. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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q99
2012-04-25 11:25 pm UTC (link)

-
Cass steals a spare costume and goes after a group of drug dealers that she's fought a number of times before, only for Batman to show up to stop her just as the head of the gang bunges a phial of rage drug at them, causing the pair to go on a fight that wrecked a lot of the city.-

Twas a pretty great fight :)

I like when they both hit Nightwing ^^

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	no subject kenwyn89 2012-04-26 01:32 am UTC (link)
	I'd like those scans please :D (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

	no subject zechs80 2012-04-26 03:29 am UTC (link)
	http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/791324.html#cutid1 (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject icon_uk 2012-04-26 06:19 pm UTC (link)
	No Dick-punching there though.... (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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silverzeo
2012-04-25 11:50 pm UTC (link)

I hope see gets in Young Justice... then COnner would be in a lover pyramid (three point centered at one point in the middle). I don't care if Betty and Babes are in the show as civilians, if "The Batman" can have Batgirl show up before Robin, and somehow have here in College at the end of series while Dick is still in... Middle/HighSchool, than they can just have Cass be Batgirl like that... in fact, her origin story would fit in well with "The Light" and their goals...

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	no subject mrstatham 2012-04-26 05:59 am UTC (link)
	I doubt they'll introduce Cass, given the upcoming Invasion stuff is bringing Barbara as Batgirl in. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 6 comments) (Show 6 comments)

	no subject espanolbot 2012-04-26 06:40 am UTC (link)
	There's still wiggle room. 'Cause of the... um, implied timeskip. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 5 comments) (Show 5 comments)

	no subject mrstatham 2012-04-26 06:43 am UTC (link)
	Still, I doubt they'd muddy the water with two Batgirls, unfortunately, even though Cass would be the more interesting one. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 4 comments) (Show 4 comments)

	no subject espanolbot 2012-04-26 06:45 am UTC (link)
	Ah, but Cass has the benefit of having like three to four hero names (Cassandra Cain, Batgirl, Kasumi and Black Bat) even if they don't use her as Batgirl, they can still use her under one of her other names and say she mainly operates out of Bludhaven or Hong Kong or something. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 3 comments) (Show 3 comments)

	no subject kraesil 2012-04-26 10:02 am UTC (link)
	So far I've managed to find a total of ONE image of Batgirl- Babs. Also I've managed to find some images of Cassie!Wonder Girl- I wonder if Donny Troy exists here, though I doubt it. Also wondering why the creators used Dick Grayson and Wally, but is now animating Cassie. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject gerardotejada 2012-04-29 03:46 am UTC (link)
	They hate Donna Troy, they went as far as to change the characters relationships to fit Cassie. I just wan to see one animated series that have both Tim and Cass (NO I dont suport batcest) they are the best batman ever, that was the point of fresh blood. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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mrstatham
2012-04-26 04:12 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, but ask nearly any Cassfan who they'd want her to be. Better yet, ask any common or garden Batfan who they know her best as, and it's Batgirl. Cass has a big legacy as Batgirl, and given they've seemingly swept the board clean to make way for Barbara, I couldn't see them muddying the water in other media. And because Cass is best known as Batgirl, I don't see them using her.

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jaybee3
2012-04-26 08:42 pm UTC (link)

I've always like her as a fit in the YJ universe too. She would be like Artemis/Cheshire but on a whole other level (being that Cain/Shiva > Sportsmaster/Tigress) - "The One Who is All". Even in the regular comics (non-Beechan) the League of Assasins held her in awe for her potential and abilities. Imagine a world where such a girl escapes Ra's and the League and joins with the Batman of all people. Keeping Cass' social skills (or lack of it) and her verbal language skills (or lack of it) would make her a good contrast to the YJ team.

Besides - she's a teen, Asian ninja girl who works with Batman, she seems like a perfect fit for animation. People who loved X-23 and don't read comics would love her.

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	no subject starwolf_oakley 2012-04-26 03:51 am UTC (link)
	Nyssa reiterated this to Cassandra in "Destruction's Daughter," the final arc in Cass' own book. Nyssa said that Batman only saw Cassandra as a tool, which is why he never taught her to read or be a "whole" person. Also, wasn't Bruce hiring and then firing Stephanie really just a plan to get Tim back as Robin? (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

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espanolbot
2012-04-26 06:47 am UTC (link)

Nyssa was an evil, lying idiot who repeatedly refered to Cass as her property to her face due to Nyssa's father, Ra's al Ghul, bring the one who funded the project that made Cass. Although Bruce may have accidentally used her as a tool for his crusade initially, he did come to respect and care for her as a person, while Nyssa was just projecting her own opinions as to what Cass was onto her.

And the Bruce/Stephanie thing WAS true, but really very few people came through War Games looking 100% clean. The problem was that although they attempted to tie up the "Batman is an angry jerk" plotthreads after Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive, a lot of Batwriters seemed to just prefer him that way. Hence why it was brought back again, only this time with Identity Crisis as an excuse.

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gerardotejada
2012-04-29 03:54 am UTC (link)

War Games never happened, is the first time a book has been so heavely retconed so all the changes and events It introduced were deleted into oblivion.

And Batman didnt have nothing much to do in the Identity Crisis book, no much more than beign Tim´s emotional support.

It was a shame that Morrison and Snyder didnt have time to work together fiting the new status quo of Batman Inc. That was a fun Batman, I dont know if he was still a jerk o rnot but at least he was fun

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	no subject eyz 2012-04-26 11:30 am UTC (link)
	Wasn't it around the time she got a boyfriend for a little period of time? Of this is still pretty early in her run? needs to re-read her entire on-going (Reply to this)

	no subject kraesil 2012-04-26 12:23 pm UTC (link)
	Oh, and you REALLY REALLY NEED TO POST DICK GETTING HIS ARSE HANDED TO HIM. ^^ (Reply to this)

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