The Rogues before they became "The Rogues"

[icon_uk]

One of the most interesting things that the Wally West Flash series did was the the Rogues, the loose assortments of villains that had plagued Barry for years, and retconning them as... well, a sort of family, a dysfunctional family but they a bond between them. Originally they had little in common with each other, other than they bought their costumes in the same place and were united in their hatred for the Flash.

I'm still preparing my Serpent Society history post, but I found this in my LJ gallery lelarly having intended to post it at some point, but I don't think I ever did, so here is another take on villainous relationships, before it became somewhat friendlier, for a given value of friendship of course, as via cary bates and Carmine Infantino, we find out how the Rogues originally handled the death of "one of their own"






Eobard Thawne was the original Reverse-Flash, he was most notable for murdering Iris Allen (It didn't take... eventually), and then later trying to kill Barry's then new fiancée Fiona Webb. It was whilst defending Fiona that Barry snapped Thawne's neck, killing him (more or less permanently, or at least for an impressively long time). We take up the story almost immediately afterwards...

(Worth noting that Carmine Infantino, who is still with us at the grand age of 86, was associated with The Flash for over 30 years, designing the Barry Allen Flash in 1956, and drawing the last four years of the book from 1981 to 1985. His style is instantly recognisable and though not always my favourite, he always has a special place in my heart from my childhood. The inking here, from Dennis Jensen,  is amongst the best I've seen on Infantino's work.)





And how do certain elements take the news?









It's not just in Gotham that the ordinary cops on the beat must occasionally wonder what the hell kind of a job they've taken on.

Please note this is also before most attempts to "humanise" the villains, or make them particularly sympathetic, also many years before the Pied Piper came out of the closet.





Ouch! Like I said, these are not particularly well balanced individuals.

]

And thus started "The Trial of the Flash", a story which more or less literally put the nail in the coffin of Barry Allen, but that's a post for another day, by someone who cares about it more than me.

Comments

[starwolf_oakley]

I've said before I don't fully "get" the Rogues. They don't want to kill the Flash (his Super-friends would go after them). They don't want to rule a Central City criminal empire (Too much work). It doesn't seem they are in it for the money (few supervillains really are). So, what's the deal? It is like the Rogues are the Rogues as something to do.

[pyynk]

They're in it for the money. Just not enough money to get on anyone's radar. Think of them as blue collar criminals. Batman's villains do it for the glory, Superman's want to beat him, the Rogue's just need to make the mortgage payment.

[icon_uk]

Which, as even they themselves have gotten around to noticing, given their mastery of some of the most powerful forces on Earth, does make them blithering idiots on a MASSIVE scale; Heat, cold, sound, light, the weather itself, the applications are phenomenally large

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

And as Mirror Master pointed out in his solo issue, it's not about that. It's about challenging themselves, going out there with what they do best, fighting one of the best heroes around and holding their own.

[icon_uk]

If it's not about that, then they're not the blue collar villains they seem to maintain to be. It's either about challenging the heroes, or making money. Both are perfectly valid reasons for villainy, but they're incompatible.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Why can't it be both?

Make a score big enough to get you through a few months, and prove to yourself and the world that you have the chops by crossing swords with The Flash?

Being blue collar does not preclude challenging one's limits.

[icon_uk]

Fair point, but doing something for the glory is different from doing it for the cash. It just seems like a mismatch as presented.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

It's not impossible to do both, not by a long shot. And frankly, that's a simplification of most of the Rogues. They all go out to fight Flash and to make a buck, but the underlining reasons are different for each.

Cold wants to prove himself to himself, and has a grudge against law enforcement.

Heatwave wanted to hide his sickness, his pyromania, as a gimmick.

Weather Wizard wants the world to respect his intelligence (though he's not that smart).

Mirror Master wants to escape into a fantasy land of heroes and villains, so he doesn't have to face the fact that he murdered his father.

Boomerbutt's an ass who was never good at anything else and only won any respect when he sucker-punched the Flash

And the list goes on. What makes them blue collar is their (relatively) simple weapons. The Flash provides a challenge that they can overcome with enough cunning, and the money keeps them going until the next fight.

[starwolf_oakley]

Whenever I see the Rogues, I think of a line the actual Rick James said on Chappelle's Show about Charlie Murphy's story about Rick grinding muddy boots into Eddie Murphy's new couch.

"I never did things just to do them. What, I'm gonna just all of the sudden jump up and grind my feet on somebody's couch like it's something to do? I got a little more sense than that. Yeah, I remember grinding my feet on Eddie's couch."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc20DK6m24A

Which I guess means I just equated the Flash to Eddie Murphy.

[vspope]

In one of the early Wally stories, Wally attends a Rogues' Gallery banquet at a motor lodge. (Trickster sent him an invite as a joke, not thinking he'd show up.) Once he does, he's treated mostly amicably by the Rogues, who make it clear that while they're not THRILLED that there's a new Flash, the vendettas died with Barry. In between threatening to dig up Barry's body and desecrate it, Golden Glider says "I hated the man for what he did, not the costume."

Later on, Cold talks with Wally and says that Barry's real masterstroke wasn't his speed, but making things more about outwitting and defeating HIM than about power or blood or money. By keeping the Rogues focused on battling the Flash, Barry kept them from unleashing their creativity and powers on Central City.

The death of the Top also comes to mind; the Rogues treated his remains quite well and gave him a full wake. (Of course, the Top then revealed via tape-recording that he'd set bombs all over Central City, because if he couldn't rob Central City, no one could...)

[icon_uk]

Yes, that issue was posted here by yours truly! :D

[silicondream]

In the Waid-Morrison era, MM described himself as committing crimes to make money to pay for tech to commit bigger crimes to make more money to pay for better tech et cetera. No one of those things seemed to be THE goal for him. That was revised a bit by Johns, of course.

[icon_uk]

With the Evan McCulloch Mirror Master (whose name escapes me) I can see that being reasonable. He was a hired mercenary (in Animal Man) before he joined the Rogues proper, and I can see he might be wanting to be sure that he's as far ahead of the game as he can manage, so is always buying/stealing new "toys" as he doesn't have Sam Scudder's bizarre aptitude for insane optics and on his first few missions at least wasn't sure how some of his mirror weapons worked.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Reminds of a scene on Johns' Crossfire arc (before he sucked).

A detective pointed out that Cold was smarter than this, that he shouldn't be going after small scores, and asks him why.

Cold then pointed out to the police detective that his suit costs several thousand dollars, and asks him why he spends so much on suits. When the detective fails to replies, Cold says

"Hard to explain the vices, isn't it?"

[icon_uk]

That's sort of a specious comparison to use though. How one spends disposable income (for which there are plenty of answers; "I like to look good" being the most obvious) is light years away from why one goes out and commits crimes, murdering people in the process..

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Not really, as the person in question was a cop (and thus didn't have alot of disposable income).

And he wasn't talking about why Cold committed crimes, but why he went after the small scores when he was smart enough to shoot for the big game (ironically, he said this as Cold was undermining the current Rogue leader to establish himself as top dog).

[icon_uk]

But it IS his disposable income, so the point is still moot. He chooses to spend his earnings on clothes, big deal.

And the comparison makes even less sense with that extra info. Cold is suggesting that spending a lot of money on clothes is a vice, it's not, it's a choice.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

It is a vice when you don't need it and it wastes money. The Detective's suit cost somewhere around a thousand bucks, after all.

[icon_uk]

Only if you abide by the most extreme definitions of vice, by that definition, pretty much anything outside of basic foodstuffs, basic heating and cheap clothing is a vice.

For all we know, he economises in other areas to pay for his clothes. He could take a holiday abroad, or run a nicer car, but has chosen not to and spend money on clothes. There is absolutely nothing wrong or vice-ridden about that.

If we found out his kids are sent to school hungry and in tatty clothing, or his wife has to work three jobs to pay the rent, because he's blowing all their income on clothes, then yes, that's a vice, but as this is, presumably, an honest cop, it seems more reasonably to assume that he's not.