scans_daily: The best heroes are defined by tragedy?

arbre_rieur (

arbre_rieur) wrote in

scans_daily,
@ 2012-05-01 09:08 pm UTC

Entry tags:

creator: mark waid, title: daredevil

The best heroes are defined by tragedy?

A little over a page from DAREDEVIL 11, the finale to the "Omega Effect" crossover.

Daredevil has a chat with the Punisher's new partner.

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	no subject simiansyndicate 2012-05-01 02:08 pm UTC (link)
	Dear Mark Waid, I love you. This is magnificent. Much like a lot of your Marvel work, you've made me care and see heroes in a new light. Y'know, like real heroes. Please write all of my favorite comics into infinity. Love, Simiansyndicate (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject drmcninja 2012-05-01 10:21 pm UTC (link)
	Don't be so selfish. Please write EVERY comic into infinity. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject bradygirl_12 2012-05-01 02:23 pm UTC (link)
	I wonder if Bruce Wayne would agree with her at least a little bit? Though I think he would definitely agree with Daredevil, too. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 7 comments) (Show 7 comments)

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icon_uk
2012-05-01 02:39 pm UTC (link)

Bruce was motivated by loss and admits it, but has a great deal of respect for those who the same job for different reasons (Look at his admiration for Jim Gordon).. except when he's in full on asshole mode of course, in which case, no one can understand the depth fo HIS loss... etc etc etc.

He also does everything he can so that other people are not motivated like he is... cf recent the Young Justice episode;

Wonder Woman: [You] indoctrinated Robin into crimefighting at the ripe-old age of nine.
Batman: Robin needed to help bring the man who murdered his family to justice.
Wonder Woman: So he could turn out like you?
Batman: So that he wouldn't.

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	no subject bradygirl_12 2012-05-01 03:23 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, I was thinking of that mode of no one can understand. I LOVE that YJ dialogue. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject kenwyn89 2012-05-01 04:35 pm UTC (link)
	Yes, well written Bruce would have something to say. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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md84
2012-05-02 01:32 am UTC (link)

Then there was that one story in which Batman rescued the Thomas and Martha Wayne of an alternate universe and worried if he was doing more harm than good by depriving that world of Batman (which would sound pretty egotistical -- except Batman has done a lot to make the DC universe a safer place). That world's Bruce grew up to be a costumed hero anyway, having been inspired by the shadowy figure who saved his family.

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	no subject biod 2012-05-02 02:45 pm UTC (link)
	I remember that story. It was very, very good. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

	no subject cf105 2012-05-04 05:52 am UTC (link)
	How did that go in Whatever Happened to the caped crusader? Bruce: What is my reward? Martha: You get to be Batman... (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject biod 2012-05-04 08:22 pm UTC (link)
	Who can ask for more? (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject cainofdreaming 2012-05-01 02:32 pm UTC (link)
	Frank's not even that cynical. Though he does have the advantage of having fought with and against Captain America. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

	no subject icon_uk 2012-05-01 02:35 pm UTC (link)
	During which he shot dead an ally of his own side because he was a criminal, despite the fact that aforesaid ally had given Cap important intel. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject cainofdreaming 2012-05-01 03:21 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, not saying he's not sociopathic. Just that even he acknowledges that people can be motivated without having experienced loss of loved ones. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject icon_uk 2012-05-01 02:34 pm UTC (link)
	I think I want to stand on a chair and applaud, long and loud. Bravo Mr Waid, Bravo. (Reply to this)

	no subject dr_archeville 2012-05-01 04:32 pm UTC (link)
	Wow. Good on you, Mr. Waid. (Reply to this)

	no subject werehawk 2012-05-01 06:38 pm UTC (link)
	Motto on the kudos to (the ever humble - see recent interviews) Mark Waid. My only question is when was Daredevil's costume redesigned by Jim Lee (though he forgot the collar)? Oh, right, Daredevil was rereleased with the new 52. (Reply to this) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

	no subject werehawk 2012-05-01 07:45 pm UTC (link)
	And all, head over to www.thrillbent.com! Waid has put up his new (free) online comics, the first installment of his (and Peter Krause's) Insufferable series and a short Walking Dead-esque story. Happy reading! (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject icon_uk 2012-05-01 08:40 pm UTC (link)
	Oooh, I like Insufferable (Nice wordplay on Invincible and Irredeemable methinks) (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

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jaybee3
2012-05-01 07:41 pm UTC (link)

Part of me thinks this is Waid speaking not only to the industry at large but to his former employers at DC who have retconned so many origins (Ice being the premier example, but to a lesser extent the Marvel Family and then Tim Drake with offing his dad) so that they have a "tragic" motivation for being heroes. Because some people just being naturally GOOD and HEROIC is no longer good enough.

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mrstatham
2012-05-01 09:16 pm UTC (link)

I don't think it quite rings true, to every degree, though. Look at Spider-Man, for instance. The guy wouldn't be a superhero at all if it weren't for a tragic incident, he'd still be a jerk, pretty much. And how many times has Daredevil been motivated to act by tragedy? To me, it just doesn't quite ring true coming from a character like Daredevil, who yes, has the resolve to carry on being a hero now, but usually only after he's been pushed to emotional depths of despair. It doesn't ring true when it comes from a Marvel character in general, to me, since the big hooks are meant to be that they're relatable people.

Also, what went on with Tim Drake and the Marvels isn't retconning an origin, merely trying to fit round characters into square holes.

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starwolf_oakley
2012-05-02 12:55 am UTC (link)

.Look at Spider-Man, for instance. The guy wouldn't be a superhero at all if it weren't for a tragic incident, he'd still be a jerk, pretty much.

According to a FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD SPIDER-MAN story, he'd have mutated into a humanoid Man-Spider and killed the Avengers. Voldemort/PAD wrote it, so we can't post it here.

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	no subject mrstatham 2012-05-02 12:29 pm UTC (link)
	Well, fair enough. Everyone knows the PAD rule. But the point still stands. Spider-Man wouldn't be a superhero at all if it wasn't for losing Uncle Ben. He'd just be that jerk exploiting his abilities to his own end. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 2 comments) (Show 2 comments)

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lorriek
2012-05-02 02:21 pm UTC (link)

I've always thought there was a chance that Peter would have ended up a supervillain had Ben not been killed. Not because I though he would mutate into a monster or anything, but because getting powers brought out the worst in him. He was so bitter and selfish, a genius who felt the world owed him something- sounds like a supervillain origin to me.

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mrstatham
2012-05-02 04:10 pm UTC (link)

Well, we see it in the film, even, that Peter does just use his abilities for his own personal gain, at first, or at least tries to. I think there's a set of three comics by Kurt Busiek that actually open up the time inbetween him gaining his Spider-powers and Uncle Ben dying. But I don't think it's an entirely unreasonable reaction from Peter that he did get incredibly big-headed after he got his powers.

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	no subject benuben 2012-05-02 11:54 am UTC (link)
	Since when you have to make character loose loved one to make him relatable? (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent) (Thread) (Hide 1 comment) (Show 1 comment)

	no subject mrstatham 2012-05-02 12:27 pm UTC (link)
	I'm not saying you do. I'm saying it doesn't ring true coming from Daredevil, who has lost plenty of loved ones and gone with the emotional response plenty of times. It's like Spider-Man saying this. It doesn't work. (Reply to this) (Thread from start) (Parent)

	no subject drmcninja 2012-05-01 10:23 pm UTC (link)
	I'm curious about what her response was. Her being a marine, I wonder how she would respond to DD's defense of her own brethren from her own attack. (Reply to this)

	no subject sinisterlink 2012-05-02 12:09 am UTC (link)
	claps (Reply to this)

	no subject big_daddy_d 2012-05-02 12:11 am UTC (link)
	....Ok I didn't have much interest in the Omega Effect crossover..but this alone just sold me. (Reply to this)

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starwolf_oakley
2012-05-02 01:08 am UTC (link)

Some of this reminds me of what Greg Rucka wrote last August.

http://www.ineffableaether.com/2011/08/24/light-in-the-dark/

(Pet peeve time: for the contingent out there who sneer at heroes like Superman and Wonder Woman and Captain America, those icons who still, at their core, represent selfless sacrifice for the greater good, and who justify their contempt by saying, oh, it’s so unrealistic, no one would ever be so noble… grow up. Seriously. Cynicism is not maturity, do not mistake the one for the other. If you truly cannot accept a story where someone does the right thing because it’s the right thing to do, that says far more about who you are than these characters.)

Nope, better have some murdered loved ones as motivation.

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	no subject shadowpsykie 2012-05-02 02:11 am UTC (link)
	wow.... i think i need to clean my keyboard.... (Reply to this)

	no subject atom_punk 2012-05-02 06:34 am UTC (link)
	Well spoken Mr. Waid. I tip my virtual hat to thee. (Reply to this)

	no subject kraesil 2012-05-02 09:23 am UTC (link)
	A toast to Mr. Waid! raises glass The world needs more stuff like this. ...It's juice, ok? I'm not going to get tipsy on you. Or break the law by drinking wine before I'm 18. (Reply to this)

	no subject crabby_lioness 2012-05-02 11:53 pm UTC (link)
	Thank you, Mr. Waid! (Reply to this)

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