aeka: (Power Girl [modcon]:)
Diane Darcy ([personal profile] aeka) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily2012-05-07 17:48
Entry tags:

Mod Post: Clarifications about Rule Changes, Moderation, and NoScans

Greetings Scans Daily,

We would like to first thank all of you for being patient with us while we took the time to look over all the feedback we received on our last post regarding rule modifications. I would also like to personally apologise to everyone for taking this long to make this post since life took a serious hard hit on my end as of late and hadn't really had the energy to make a post of this size. So again, thank you all for your patience.

Since we finally got around to discussing most of the issues at hand, the overall major areas of concern seem to be in the following areas:

1. Change to the first rule about posting
2. Moderation is too strict
3. SD and NSD are on two separate platforms

Since the contents of this post are quite lengthy, we've divided these posts into sections addressing each point individually.


1. Change to the first rule about posting

First and foremost, we want everyone to remember that Scans Daily's primary function has always been to post and discuss comic scans, while NoScans Daily was specifically created for comic related discussions without the scans. This was true back when Scans Daily was still an LJ community, this is true even now. In fact, one of the former mods from the LJ days even confirmed this. As such, one of the reasons for the change was to clarify how posts to the comm were to be done. Another reason was to make the rules on the info page consistent with those on the posting checklist. One of the issues that arose with the way the original first rule was worded was that it was too broad and open to interpretation. As a result we started seeing an increase of posts on topics that were either loosely related to comics, or were more appropriate material for NoScans Daily with a legality scan thrown in there as a concession to first rule. Not only does this shift the purpose of Scans Daily from its primary function by treating scans as secondary to the main topic, but it is also not within the raison d'etre of the community, thus effectively defeating the purpose of both comms.

Another reason for the change is the fact that we are bound by the limitations of DW's blogging software. Since tagging is one way we make it easier for users to find what they need at a more efficient manner, keeping the two comms separate with more focused functions makes it easier to keep tags under the set limit (particularly in SD's case). It also means less rules for users of both comms to follow, and it even makes moderation of both comms easier on the mod team.

Some of you expressed that you felt this was an issue the entire comm should've been consulted about first before implementing any changes. We would like to assert this was not a question of redefining the comm's purpose, but an issue of moderation that needed to be addressed. The mod team spent over a month discussing the rules and suggesting changes that would clarify posting rules and guidelines for users, stay true to the comm's purpose, as well as make the posting checklist consistent with the rules on the info page, and so that it is easier for users to follow. These were not changes that were done over night and were heavily discussed, agreed upon, and supported by the mod team before releasing the finalised versions.

2. Moderation is too strict

With regards to our moderation style, some of you expressed the concern that we are "too strict." We would like to remind everyone that both SD and NSD are feminist communities. This is explicitly stated on both comms' user infos, and it is even reiterated on the SD comm's sidebar. Given the nature and ethos of both comms, anti-oppression and anti-discriminatory behaviour is our policy. As such we tailor our rules of conduct and disciplinary action to protect the interests of more marginalised groups, and to effectively reduce the chances of an all out flamewar from taking place.

It has been suggested that we are too PC in our moderation that we thus "suck the fun out of free discussion." The reality is there are plenty of spaces on the web where people can have fun with their casual racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, etc, while discussing their favourite comics. There are, however, very few spaces on the web where more marginalised individuals can openly discuss issues that affect them personally as comic readers without being personally attacked and ridiculed by other (typically less aware) users. Neither SD nor NSD are spaces where things like casual racism are tolerated and we will always take the side of the person feeling threatened by another user's oppressive and/or discriminatory behaviour.

It is often erroneously believed by many that things like racism and misogyny have to be deliberate and/or intentional for them to count as such, but I can safely say (as psych major) that this is not true. Intent is only one aspect that maintains and influences the prevalence of systems like racism and misogyny. Socialisation, internalisation, and subsequently behaviour are three others. As a result, most people aren't even aware of when they behave in ways that are racist or misogynist, even if they themselves don't actively discriminate against people of other ethnicities or women. Therefore if you are ever issued a mod note telling you to cease a certain behaviour, it is because you are either being deliberately offensive, behaving in ways that are offensive, or are just being generally disruptive in the community. Depending on the severity of the infraction and/or repetition of infractions can lead to a warning, a suspension, or a banning all in that order. That is to say you will never get to one without going through all the previous ones first. While we're on the subject, we would like to further clarify that mod notes are NOT warnings, but are in fact just notes. Notes letting you know to either tone it down or modify your behaviour.

All that being said, we would like to similarly remind everyone that the mod team is always approachable at any time via PM or our email: scansdailymod[at]gmail[dot]com. If you have any problems, concerns, or questions about anything you wish to address, you are free to contact us directly. If you are ever offended by a particular post, another user's behaviour, or are feeling personally attacked, contact us. If you are unsure of how to make a post to the community or if your post counts as legal, contact us. If you ever feel that another member of the mod team is behaving in ways that offends you, contact one of us. We do not bite and we will be more than happy to discuss the things that bother you.

3. SD and NSD are on two separate platforms

With regards to SD and NSD being on two separate platforms, since this is an issue that directly affects the [livejournal.com profile] noscans_daily community, we are actually holding this discussion and poll over there.

The mod team has actually been thinking about moving that comm over to this platform for some time now and the reasons for the consideration are addressed in the modpost linked.

You are all welcome to join in the conversation there, and if you are able to, vote on the poll as well.
werehawk: (Default)

[personal profile] werehawk 2012-05-07 22:53 (UTC)(link)
Y'know what would be great (but probably not feasible)? If instead of the [useless?] 'popular tags' on the sidebar here at scans_daily, there was a feed to the recent Noscans_daily posts (and maybe vice versa). Possibly that would be easier if both were in DW. I just went over to noscans for the first time in at least a year and there are some interesting threads. I'm just too lazy to look over there on a regular basis (and I miss non-comic related posts and sketches though I understand why they are there now) but I would totally love if there was a feed here that could catch my eye every now and then.
filthysize: (Default)

[personal profile] filthysize 2012-05-07 23:42 (UTC)(link)
Excellent suggestion. This, please.

I am pretty sure it's doable with RSS.
darth_cloudo: (Default)

[personal profile] darth_cloudo 2012-05-08 01:25 (UTC)(link)
That's a great idea. It would be really useful for people who forget about NS_D (like me).
mistygeek: (Default)

[personal profile] mistygeek 2012-05-10 02:38 (UTC)(link)
This would be excellent.
seralphia: (Default)

[personal profile] seralphia 2012-05-07 23:05 (UTC)(link)
"It has been suggested that we are too PC in our moderation that we thus "suck the fun out of free discussion." The reality is there are plenty of spaces on the web where people can have fun with their casual racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, etc, while discussing their favourite comics. There are, however, very few spaces on the web where more marginalised individuals can openly discuss issues that affect them personally as comic readers without being personally attacked and ridiculed by other (typically less aware) users. Neither SD nor NSD are spaces where things like casual racism are tolerated and we will always take the side of the person feeling threatened by another user's oppressive and/or discriminatory behaviour."

I LIKE that this community makes an effort to make you THINK about how your language affects others. It's the first step to self-awareness and changing your stick to become a better person.

Plus, the opinion of people who use the phrase "too PC" is a rather worthless currency, since it usually means, "what do you mean, I should pay attention to what I'm doing onto others? But that's HAAAAAARD!"

Good on you for not backing out of that one.


(BTW, I'm delurking. I'm booksforlunch from the old livejournal-comm, long, long ago.)
cleome45: (violet2)

[personal profile] cleome45 2012-05-08 00:01 (UTC)(link)
[nod]

I've lost track of how many online "homes" I've bailed on over the years because of bullshit perpetrated by people who insisted on the central importance of being "un-P.C." all the time and everywhere. (And of course, it's not just a fandom thing.)

Which makes no sense anyway, since every group in the universe has their own orthodoxy, and their own "P.C." There were dudes on more than one board who sniggered at me because I asked them to quit using gendered slurs against women politicians they hated. (To cite just one example of their constant, willful cluelessness.) I'd like a dollar for each time I tried to explain why they were hurting me in their efforts to run down a political foe. But if I called them sexist assholes for continuing to do it, of course that was Not Something A Good Girl Would Call Her Brother/Comrade, and I'd get dogpiled, (or I was banned or run off, in some cases).

The people who rail the loudest against "P.C." (and who insist that the rest of us "toughen up" if we want to play) are often the ones with skin so brittle that you could make strudel out of it.
werehawk: (Default)

[personal profile] werehawk 2012-05-08 00:43 (UTC)(link)
I like the way things have been handled by mods the few threads (actually just a section of comments) that they have frozen and dealt with. I would have likely asked them to come in a couple of times, but they dealt with it swiftly and politely every time so I didn't even have to bring it to the mods attention. I never said it, but good work y'all!

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quatoria: An extreme close-up of my eye, with the blade of a knife just barely touching the bottom edge of my pupil. (Default)

[personal profile] quatoria 2012-05-08 01:23 (UTC)(link)
It seems like quite a strawman to suggest that the only people who have been concerned about the moderation are those who feel that it is 'too PC', and want to 'have fun with their casual racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, etc.' In fact, I'd say that's nearly slander.

I've seen several complaints aired that have nothing to do with wanting the community ethos to change. Personally, I love the community ethos, and wouldn't see it changed for the world, but have previously voiced concerns over the changing tone of the moderation, and how quick off the trigger we are now with warnings and notes and frozen threads.

I shouldn't have to out myself like this, but for the record, I am a disabled person, and am quite frankly seriously pissed off at the suggestion that all complaints with moderation boil down to people wanting to express casual bigotry. How dare you?

Quite frankly, beyond simply being hurt and offended, it deeply concerns me that legitimate concerns from long-time members have been brushed away so insultingly, and with apparently so little critical examination.

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:o

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icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-05-07 23:40 (UTC)(link)
Bit disappointed that commissions and the like are only to be on no_scans since they are, by definition, scans, and of comic book characters, and thus seems counter-intuitive, but such is life.

Thank you for the work you've put into this.
salinea: (Default)

[personal profile] salinea 2012-05-07 23:51 (UTC)(link)
That's a topic on which we still have not reached a conclusion.

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[personal profile] kazeno 2012-05-08 02:09 (UTC)(link)
SD and NSD are some of the only places on the internet where I don't have to worry about misogynistic or racists slurs. As a refugee from the gaming community, that means a lot to me. Thank you for all your hard work!
thatnickguy: Oreo-lovin' Martian (Default)

[personal profile] thatnickguy 2012-05-08 03:21 (UTC)(link)
I've rarely run into troubles with this community. The one time I did, I honestly still have an issue with it. I said something like "Yeah bitches!" or something like that. It wasn't meant to be derogative in any sort whatsoever and yet it was still deleted. Not a very big deal, but in the context of how I was using it, I didn't see the need for it to be moderated.
glprime: (Default)

[personal profile] glprime 2012-05-08 03:29 (UTC)(link)
Well, there's about the only place where we've encountered "too PC." And as the mods are saying, one person's "aw yeah!" is another person's "dirty comment!" So it's not as if we can say, "but that stuff's alright, right?"

(though every now and again you do just want to say that; pwning does call for it, certainly?)

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tauruschick12: (Default)

[personal profile] tauruschick12 2012-05-08 07:40 (UTC)(link)
People actually tried to pull the 'wah wah we can't say homophobic/sexist/racist/rape jokes wah wah wah?' Are they serious? X(

I think you have all done a great job of modding, and I appreciate you for it.
autohobbs: (Default)

[personal profile] autohobbs 2012-05-08 11:49 (UTC)(link)
I love this place, practically everything about it. The only issues I've ever had is the occasional mis'androus statement being ignored, or overlooked. It's rare, but I no one is perfect.
salinea: Deadpool has a fucking horned hat on and is ready to kick gum and chew ass. Errr, moderate s_d. (mod hat)

[personal profile] salinea 2012-05-08 12:30 (UTC)(link)
If you see a misandrous statement that bothers you, don't hesitate to send a PM to a mod or an email to the modteam to complain about it.

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dancesontrains: (Batman is a model of mental health!)

[personal profile] dancesontrains 2012-05-08 17:29 (UTC)(link)
lol takes misandry seriously

Mod Note

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rallamajoop: By addygryff @ LJ (Cable)

gosh this got tl;dr quickly

[personal profile] rallamajoop 2012-05-08 17:26 (UTC)(link)
I realise my two cents are unlikely to mean much to regulars here, when I've only ever occasionally commented and even more rarely posted to this comm, despite lurking around here for years. I also realise a mod has already apologised for the wording in the statement that there are "plenty of spaces on the web where people can have fun with their casual racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, etc, while discussing their favourite comics". However, I feel the need to raise some further objections to this statement on a couple of specific grounds.

When I first discovered scans_daily as a total western comics noob back in 2004, there were two things which particularly attracted me to it. The first was the format. Between the lengthy archives and the high front-page activity s_d was a great way of staying relatively up-to-date with the big events happening at the big two companies (without buying every single issue of every big crossover or pouring over detailed reviews), to get a sense of the backstory behind a particular character or title (without having to track down hundreds of back issues), and to pick up recommendations for lesser known titles that you might otherwise never hear of. The many different posters and mix of squeeful, critical and LOLWTF examples ensured you heard plenty of different viewpoints. I own a couple of boxes worth of comics I never would have looked at twice if I hadn't heard about them here.

The second major attraction was, as the mods point out, that scans_daily has always been heavily feminist and openly slash-friendly. I think it goes without saying, however, that the way the moderators see the feminist credentials of the community has changed a lot in recent years.

The example which stayed with me was a case when a poster asking where the 'surprise buttsex' tag had gone was bluntly told that that term endorsed rape and was unacceptable - despite the joke having once been popular in the old s_d. Actually I think I first ran into the "it's not rape, it's surprise sex!" meme back in 2004 when I first got to s_d. As I understood it, it was a joke that had arisen out of yaoi doujinshi circles, where rape is a (almost ubiquitously) popular kink. There's a lot of interesting factors worth discussing over on that side of fandom, including a convincing argument that creating those doujinshi is itself a feminist act, given that Japan is really not nearly so friendly to alternative sexualities as a sampling of popular fiction might lead some fans to believe, and still has massive problems with women's rights and female sexuality. (A particular quote in an article where a doujinshi artist talked about BL as "the only way we can write a relationship between equals" has stayed with me ever since.) There's also a whole perspective on the role of rape in traditional Japanese romantic narratives and the way that shapes attitudes to this day - not entirely different from the bodice rippers of harlequin romance novels but not exactly the same either, and really there's a whole other essay topic. At the end of the day though, you can either dedicate yourself to writing that essay, or you can just sit back and say, "it's fictional, it's a common kink that does no harm, and I'm helping no-one by shaming people who enjoy it". Or, as the joke goes, "it's not rape, it's surprise sex!", because if you can't joke about something as socially convoluted yet ultimately harmless as young women enjoying weird porn, what else can you do? Yes, that sort of comment can sound problematic taken out of context, but really, what can't? Context matters.

To me, that spirit was what made the community. Maybe we couldn't change the what the media tells us we should find sexy, or the sausage-fest that is western comics, but by god we could subvert the hell out of every shred of subtext we could find, laugh at it, bond over it, and create a space where all that bullshit didn't matter so much. Let's be realistic, this is the past seen through rose-tinted glasses. The old s_d also had its vicious flame wars and genuine unpleasantness, but I'd still give it the edge over the new one.

These days, it seems the approach is to take anything as potentially problematic as the word 'lame' deadly seriously. There are certainly people out there, rape survivors included, who'd be uncomfortable with casual jokes about 'surprise buttsex', and that's nothing they should have to apologise for. However, there are also people who use humour as a coping mechanism, and who feel far more victimised by the implication they have to be 'protected' from a harmless joke in a supportive context than they would by the reverse. In the real world, people's needs and comfort zones conflict all over the places in ways like that. It's just not possible to create a perfectly safe space for everyone, and frankly, I'd side-eye anyone who tried to tell me otherwise.

Obviously, communities are made of people, and people will come and go, and change their attitudes with time. If the current moderators and remaining membership want to define the rules as they now read, then that is certainly their right; the onus is on me to move on if this doesn't suit me. But please do not suggest that alternatives are easily found. In all my years in fandom I have not found any comparable community, either in content or in spirit, on LJ/DW or anywhere else (though I would only be too happy to be proven wrong if anyone can recommend an alternative).

The mods have clearly put serious time and thought into how to create an inclusive community, and into this post, and yet still felt confident in dismissing anyone who felt less than comfortable under the current ethos as a bigot and oppressor. I don't think anything in any unfortunately worded comment I've seen here before has ever made me feel so unwelcome as that.

So as I said above, I guess I'm far from being the kind of member the mods want around here these days anyway, but I hope something in all this rambling might provide useful food for thought.
cleome45: (Default)

Re: gosh this got tl;dr quickly

[personal profile] cleome45 2012-05-08 18:36 (UTC)(link)
The "community spirit" is made or broken for you based on whether or not we can make jokes about "surprise buttsex"?

o_0

Uh, okay then.

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I'm sorry, Everyone. :o

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Re: I'm sorry, Everyone. :o

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Re: I'm sorry, Everyone. :o

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Re: the tried and true...

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Re: the tried and true...

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greenmask: (Default)

Re: gosh this got tl;dr quickly

[personal profile] greenmask 2012-05-09 11:17 (UTC)(link)
If you want to share scans or read shared scans, we want you here. If you feel that our moderation values are driving you out, then we regret that! Please don't think we'd be happy to see you go.

Your point about the use of rape in various contexts is a good one, and that would be a really interesting discussion to have. Rape being used in fictionalised porn as.. a metaphor, a get-out clause in a repressive society, a something-else.. that IS worth discussing, and it's not that it's something we don't think would ever be suitable for s_d. We also don't demand that we be allowed to protect you, if you don't want it.

We try to look out for the members who do ask or need to have certain words, certain jokes taken out of play. We would like to be entirely inclusive, for everyone - we're not there yet. We will continue to practise and improve how we address otes and warnings to members, and if you think we sound too sanctimonious at the moment we will take that into account.

You make the point that "Context matters", and that is what we try to keep at the front of our minds. If there were a post about what you would call "surprise buttsex" that was placed in the context that you elaborate upon ('rape as escapist plot device, let's discuss') I don't think there would be trouble. Unless comments or commentary got out of hand, but that's another story.

I don't think we're completely humourless yet? But you're right, there are fewer anal-sex and illustrated breast-based lulz to be had these days. Maybe we just need to find new ways to tell them. This last paragraph sounds sarcastic, and I apologise for that, because it isn't meant to be.

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icon_uk: (Default)

Re: gosh this got tl;dr quickly

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-05-09 16:13 (UTC)(link)
I feel I should say, all other considerations to one side, someone who can present such an erudite case will hopefully stick around and take part in a few more discussions! :)
newnumber6: Ghostly being (Default)

[personal profile] newnumber6 2012-05-11 22:01 (UTC)(link)
I've barely been on the journal since the "scans for legality are no longer allowed" commandment. As I said before, you saw the plague of people who felt free to do 'legality posts' as a problem. I saw it as a community. I've since corrected my mistake. I wanted to participate in a community, but this one's not mine anymore.

As others have said, the idea that everyone who complains about the moderation is just whining that they can't use racist/sexist language is offensive, and that's the implication the second part of the post gave. To your credit, you did apologize, and not even just the 'hypothetical apology' of "if we offended you, we apologize", but an actual one. You acknowledged that you chose your wording poorly. Good start. But perhaps you should correct the post, so that people who come here later and don't read the comments, don't continue to get offended.

And since I'm here, and not really expecting to stay much longer, I might as well say it:

The style of moderation is a big issue for me currently. And it's not just the racism/sexism/etc thing, although I'm going to put my head in the lion's mouth and suggest that may be a hair too strict, but before I do that and get, potentially, totally dismissed, the larger and more important issue is the attitude of the mod team, and for me, the notion of "disrespect of the mod team" being grounds for warnings or bans.

I don't think I've ever 'disrespected the mods' personally (unless this post counts), but... that's incredibly dangerous to group spirit. And yes, it may have been part of the rules since the beginning... but that's no excuse, every time it's enforced it does damage, damage to the community, and damage to you. I've seen people banned for it. Not for being outright offensive, but for actions people took to be passive-aggressively disrespecting the mods. The fact that it was in the rules since day one is irrelevant. There are plenty of rules that aren't really bad as long as nobody makes a point of enforcing them. And when you do enforce them, it effectively becomes a new rule, even if it was there all along. And hey, I'll be the first to admit, there may be a long history I'm not aware of in that particular case, and that was simply the 'final straw'. And I've been 'in charge' of a place before, and know how annoying people can get with skirting the rules. But guess what, you guys said it yourselves, with respect to the 'potentially offensive language' debate: Take something out of its context, and it has a meaning independent of your intentions that you can't control. And when you ban or warn someone for, effectively, lightly mocking you, even if there's a long history and that's the 'final straw', you are STILL sending a signal: THOU SHALT NOT SAY ANYTHING THAT MIGHT OFFEND THE MODS. And that's an incredibly broad signal, and an incredibly damaging one. THAT's the free speech issue I'm most worried about. I think a lot of people, good people, have left because they don't feel that they can question you.

Likewise, your decision on point #1. You made the decision in secret, and told the community after the fact. You tried to say "oh, sure, we're going to listen to your thoughts on this", but you'd already made the decision, and in every post that agreed with you, you posted "oh, thanks, so glad you see it our way!" and every post who disagreed with it, you seemed incredibly defensive of it, rather than open to reconsidering. IIRC, you even acknowledged that you believed that IF you put it to a vote, we, the community, wouldn't have asked for the change. In short, you gave every impression that you really DIDN'T want our input, you were happy if we liked it (and rewarded us with good-fuzzies if we did!), but considered it your decision and considered it closed. This post is more of the same. "We would like to assert this was not a question of redefining the comm's purpose, but an issue of moderation that needed to be addressed." Well, nice asserting there. That's what open, free-speech loving communities are known for, assertions by those in power about how things should be and who should determine them. That and rules against disrespecting those in charge. They thrive on that. After all, if people were allowed to disrespect those in charge, assertions would lose their power, and then where would we be? Anarchy.

I tease. I'm sure you're fine people, in general. If I didn't think that, I wouldn't bother posting this to try and convince you to change how you operate, I'd just quietly move on (like I'm sure many have already done). But I do think you go too far, and like I said, I've been in the unenviable position of being 'in charge' before, and know that power, even the little power of moderation, can... not so much corrupt, in all cases, but in many cases certainly blind. You get your mod-team all in agreement and create an echo chamber and there's less room for the concerns of others, or it feels that way to the people who aren't in on it. Perception is very important. And if people perceive you as not listening, not treating this as a community but rather a herd you have to 'manage', that's effectively what has happened, and people will leave because of it. And I believe people have left because of it. And I think I'm about to be another.

On the other thing... and you know, the truth is, if this were ALL it is, I wouldn't have a problem. If the mods felt open and not as authoritarian in every other area, even where I disagreed, I could go along with it, but, since I don't, I might as well put my thoughts on it as well:

I think most people here agree that deliberate use of anti-woman/minority language is out of line, even jokingly. But I do believe the line has to be drawn somewhere between "intentional use" and "forbidding everything that might offend some group no matter how innocently intended", for one thing because groups aren't monolithic, and what offends some people in the group won't offend others, and trying to ban anything which might hurt anybody is a fools errand. However, the chilling effects of banning completely innocently used words has to be considered. It's a community for discussing things of relative quality - a lot of words for that sort of thing have unfortunate histories that no longer really apply when any rational person is using it today. If I say something is stupid, am I offending people of lower intelligence? Is it okay if I say a poor editorial decision 'cripples the story'? What about "This sucks?" After all, 'sucks' refers to a sexual act performed by women or homosexual males, and equating that with a negative could be offensive. How about saying a character's acting like a 'douche'? No, that refers to an object of female hygene, and it's kind of twisted that it's turned into an insult... so how about "d!ck"? That might pass, considering male privilege it's not as big an issue to insult a male body part... but then what does that say about people who like d!cks? I obviously can't use bitch, but what about kvetch... maybe there's not even an issue with that word... but HOW DO I KNOW? Do I have to look up the etymology and usage history of every word I use for fear that it might be offensive?

It doesn't even MATTER much what your ruling is on any of these particular words: It might be completely sane (and I deliberately chose some that I might personally think should go on the side of 'not appropriate'... I liked that this was a feminist community, I rarely use most of those terms, except, occasionally, accidentally, and don't believe I've ever gotten a mod note). But when you take the hardline rule of "it doesn't matter your intention, you can be punished anyway" then people overanalyzing everything will cause many people to just not say anything. And to a certain extent, even a warning, even a mod note is a punishment... as you said, it's the person in charge outright telling you that your behavior is OFFENSIVE. That's not a big punishment, maybe, but I'm sure it hurts, particularly if you're a certain type of personality. A slap often doesn't hurt for more than a few seconds, that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt long after the pain fades.

A discussion group requires words. Policing them is natural, but only when they become disruptive... you must beware you don't completely choke them off. I think you've gone slightly too far in that direction. There's a balance between the ability to share freely and the potential to hurt... there SHOULD be a balance, but I think it's off. I think it was better in the past. But again, if I felt better about the mods IN GENERAL, I wouldn't care as much about this issue. It's a matter of faith - if I trusted you to handle other issues, I'd trust you to handle this incredibly tricky and potentially divisive balance, even at the expense of my own beliefs on the topic. But I don't. I don't have faith in the mod team anymore. They ban for things like "disrespecting mods", they offend people in the community without apology, and they make rules affecting all of us without consulting us and dismissing that we might want to have a say.

I fully expect that this may be my last post to the community. If I'm not banned for it (and I legitimately think that's a possibility, albeit a very small one, but still real... which means, even if I'm wrong, you've failed somewhere), it's just not a place I feel especially comfortable hanging my hat. And that's not JUST on you, either. Maybe if it was still discussing things I was especially passionate about I'd want to stay more, but, with the banning of legality scans to open threads about more general comics and comic-related topics, all that's really left to discuss is current issues I'm not reading and thus don't much care about, or the rare chance of somebody posting a topic on a past issue I loved appearing. Maybe if it was still a community instead of a strictly defined set of allowable discussions, but no. And noscans is no substitute, because, frankly, many of the same people are on top, and if I don't have faith in your moderation ability on a forum that is largely pictures, I certainly don't in a forum that is ALL words. And I never connected with noscans the way I did, once, here.

So this feels like goodbye for me. Oh, not a quick one, assuming I'm not banned, I may lurk, post occasionally, but it feels like it's been something like 2-3 weeks since I refreshed scans_daily's main page and it used to be an everyday, can't miss place, and I think from here on in, it's just a matter of very slowly drifting away.
newnumber6: Ghostly being (Default)

[personal profile] newnumber6 2012-05-11 22:08 (UTC)(link)
I would just like to make one clarification "they offend people on in the community without apology"...

That line should absolutely not be there. When I started writing this, it was early in the morning, and I misread/misremembered some of the things said in response to the people who (rightly) took offense to how point 2 read. I later went back, reread, realized my mistake and corrected myself on most of what I had prepared, but that line must have escaped my notice, and I apologize for it. It was completely out of line, and I'm sorry. Unfortunately I can't directly edit posts.