starwolf_oakley: (Default)
starwolf_oakley ([personal profile] starwolf_oakley) wrote in [community profile] scans_daily2012-05-11 02:39 pm

WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN: Scott drops by

Here are a few panels WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN #10.



I decided not to post the entire two page spread of Cyclops and Wolverine walking through the Jean Grey School and talking. So here's just the top part.



Well, we're getting a sense of what Cyclops is thinking. If the Phoenix Force wanted to destroy the world, it would have done so before now. And there's really nothing any of the X-Men or Avengers can do to stop it if that's what it wants to do. But, so far, it has acted in bringing Hope and the Five Lights.

So, Cyclops is being a fatalist? Sheesh, good thing he never led a fight against Galactus.

"So, this being eats planets? Well, nothing *we* can do will stop him."

Some teachers at the school voice their disapproval with staying on the sidelines.



Rachel: FINALLY, someone remembers! Of course, just because Rachel could control the Phoenix Force doesn't mean Hope can do the same thing.
Gambit: I've heard worse reasons for hating the Avengers. Hey, what about Monica Rambeau/Captain Marvel/Photon/Pulsar? Isn't she from Louisiana as well?
Chamber: Nobody cares about Chamber. He's probably lying about having friends on Utopia. Poor bastard.

Well, at least some characters are giving reasons why they think Cyclops is right. Of course, that also means they think Captain America is wrong. Which is never a good thing.
harpers_child: chamber from the xmen with the text "i'm so fucking beautiful" (Xmen: jono is beautiful)

note: this response lacks any critical insight

[personal profile] harpers_child 2012-05-11 06:58 pm (UTC)(link)
jono sweetie, i'm still your friend. come here so i can cuddle you. bring remy. also jono, jubilee might be a vampire right now but i'm sure she'd talk to you.
the_glow_worm: (Default)

[personal profile] the_glow_worm 2012-05-11 07:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Isn't Rachel Scott's mole?
brooms: (vada)

[personal profile] brooms 2012-05-11 07:21 pm (UTC)(link)
i feel this issue and legacy kind of destroyed the significance of that, because wolverine's school is not team avengers. most of the faculty and some students will side with cyclops, the others will sit it all out and take care of the school.

wolverine is going solo. he's not really acting for either team. i don't feel like rachel can be considered a double agent when the only person she "betrayed" was wolverine and maybe beast.
nyadnar17: (Default)

[personal profile] nyadnar17 2012-05-11 07:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes Scott's daughter is also his mole.

And to be fair, no one has actually beaten the Phoenix before right? I mean I love the Big G and all but he isn't unbeatable, I don't think the Phoenix has a single loss on its record so far. The best anyone has ever done is a) drive it insane or b) used a host to temporarily limit its behavior.

Seeing as how plan b has work out every single time its been tried before, I don't see how Scott has the wrong idea here.

[personal profile] arilou_skiff 2012-05-11 08:01 pm (UTC)(link)
The Exiles beat Phoenix/Jean (well, everyone pretty much died) and there was an alt-universe where the Living Tribunal showed up and basically said "Bad bird. No more burning universes." And Phoenix was like "Yes sir. No more burning." but that's pretty much as high the cosmic totem-pole goes.
bruinsfan: (Default)

[personal profile] bruinsfan 2012-05-12 02:10 pm (UTC)(link)
There was a What If? story where a Phoenix-empowered Rachel Summers confronted Set and it bled her dry, but that may have been a case of striking against the host so fast and hard that the Phoenix itself couldn't compensate in time to save her. And Death has restrained/redirected it in one story I saw, though that was more a schooling in the literal sense than a fight.

Still, the Living Tribunal and Death are two of the top-tier cosmic forces, and Set is way more powerful than anything on Earth except its sister Gaea and maybe Franklin Richards with his full potential realized.

[personal profile] long_silence 2012-05-11 11:27 pm (UTC)(link)
I think the only way the Phoenix has ever been beaten was when the host either committed suicide or let someone else kill them.

And even then they tend to come back a week later.
autohobbs: (crashed Hobbie)

[personal profile] autohobbs 2012-05-11 07:44 pm (UTC)(link)
I really can't side with Cyclops on this one because there was simply no attempt to find a diplomatic solution. I'd also never willingly accept, or trust for that matter, something is wiping out entire civilizations just because it couldn't care less to alter its course slightly.
yvonmukluk: (Default)

[personal profile] yvonmukluk 2012-05-11 08:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Ditto. Yes, Cap didn't negotiate either, but he was trying to not get the planet killed, rather than hoping the aforementioned killer entity will a) not kill everyone and b) give your people their super-special-awesome powers that they might not even want back.
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)

[personal profile] shadowpsykie 2012-05-11 08:17 pm (UTC)(link)
this reason is the reason i can't really side with anyone.... Cap didn't try talking to scott, he gave him orders... and talking, concidering the x-men DO have the biggest track record with the Phoenix is the smartest thing ANY of them could have done....
nyadnar17: (Default)

[personal profile] nyadnar17 2012-05-11 08:29 pm (UTC)(link)
Cyke was never given a chance to find a diplomatic solution. Cap's first move was to show up at his house with a man Scott knew would kill his granddaughter if given a chance. Yes Scott threw the first physical punch but only after Captain America made it clear that he wasn't asking for Hope, he was demanding her.

Using a host to control the Phoenix is the only way earth has ever survived encounters with the Phoenix in the past, the X-men are the only people on the planet with any experience dealing with the Phoenix, and the whole situation centers around Cyke granddaughter as well as the fate of his species. Add all that to the X-men's sortied history with the Government in the past and of course Cyke is on edge.

Captain American pays lip services to the idea that he trust the X-men, but he really doesn't. Do you honestly think that if the Phoenix had been on its way to Reed Richard's place to make Franklin its host and Mr Fantastic told Cap "Don't worry I have things under control" that Cap would have shown up at the Baxter building with a freaken army demanding Franklin be handed over?
autohobbs: (Hobbie1)

[personal profile] autohobbs 2012-05-12 01:07 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, I do believe Captain America would do just that. I mean, cyclops isn't a saint here at all. His entire journey over the past years is him becoming a more militant person, who genuinely distrust human society. Schism basically all but showed u s that Wolverine is following the path of Xavier, while Cyclops is slowly turning into Magneto when he was their enemy.

Honestly, though, both sides are wrong/right. I tend to lean more toward caps just because Cyclops didn't try, he didn't even utter the words, "Only if we can escort her, and be a part of your investigation." Instead, he's betting everything on a hunch that maybe the Phoenix will help him out.

Yes, Jean controlled the Phoenix, but the Avengers have a legitimate reason to fear this force of rebirth/destruction. Not only is it currently slaughtering billions of innocents, they also saw what it could do during the Dark Phoenix Saga. Plus, in the end Jeans story alone should be a giant saga of why not to try and tame the Phoenix. Rachel Summers pulled it off, but so far that's still only 50/50.
shadwing: Psi SW2 Game Card (Default)

[personal profile] shadwing 2012-05-12 03:36 am (UTC)(link)
Instead, he's betting everything on a hunch that maybe the Phoenix will help him out.

Oh gods yes! I mean lets look at the other known hosts that could control the Flaming Parrot.

Jean Grey- THE most powerful and highly trained telepath on earth next to Xavier himself, and even she bobbled with the power, went insane and commited suicide to stop herself from reducing the planet to ash.

Rachel Summers- Jean's Daughter, another highly disaplined and trained telepath who by her own admission only accessed a tiny sliver of the Force and never any more with the fear she could loose control and it would consume her like it did her mother.

Both women had years of training before they got the Parrot, Jean had a powerful empathy that was nutured by her family and friends, Rachel didn't have that growing up...but got one when she came to this time they had powerful anchors to humanity and that helped them ALLOT, both were of the same bloodline and it was because of that bloodline that the Shiar murdered all the Grey Bloodline to PREVENT another Host from ever being born/created.

Hope?

Hope didnt' get her powers till very recently, a year? Maybe? Has had minimal training other than as a soldier and survialist, she's screwed in the head you CANNOT come out of the childhood she had without some mental problems. She's been told she's a Chosen One since she was old enough to understand. Attempts to reign her in or disapline her have been half hearted at best, useless at worst she almost mind raped the other 'Lights'. And now she's to be the host for a Cosmic Being...one that gives the best a run for their money...

*head desk*

[personal profile] md84 2012-05-12 03:45 am (UTC)(link)
And when Jean went insane, she ate a sun and doomed a nearby planet's people.

Cyclops is quite literally playing with fire. Worse, this fire could potentially destroy Earth. Heck, it's already destroyed a bunch of populated worlds on its way to Earth.

The Avengers may be ill-informed about the nature of the Phoenix, but they at least are actively trying to FIGHT the fire, not feed it.
autohobbs: (Guys butt)

[personal profile] autohobbs 2012-05-12 09:59 am (UTC)(link)
The last "hero" I remember that was told he would be a savior, and began training for such an thing late in their life turned into Darth Vader.... >_> Just saying.
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-05-12 10:27 am (UTC)(link)
Except you're forgetting Luke, who started training when he was at least ten years older than Anakin, had a few weeks Jedi training IN TOTAL, and DID defeat the Empire.
autohobbs: (crashed Hobbie)

[personal profile] autohobbs 2012-05-12 10:58 am (UTC)(link)
No one was hounding him about he was the Messiah though. He was also alone.
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-05-12 01:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Though I agree he wasn't viewed as a Messiah by most, Yoda did tend to stress the "You're the last hope" with a heavy subtext of "Do what I say or the galaxy is hosed".
greenmask: (grr)

Mod note

[personal profile] greenmask 2012-05-12 12:54 pm (UTC)(link)
"mind raped"

Mind controlled, violated the minds of, stole control of, etc

Would all be better, if you please.
shadwing: Psi SW2 Game Card (Default)

Re: Mod note

[personal profile] shadwing 2012-05-12 04:25 pm (UTC)(link)
I'd love to, however there is no 'edit' tab or button on my post, how do I edit it?
greenmask: (Default)

Re: Mod note

[personal profile] greenmask 2012-05-14 10:08 am (UTC)(link)
Don't worry about editing it - just keep it in mind in future, cool? Thank you!
shadwing: Psi SW2 Game Card (Default)

Re: Mod note

[personal profile] shadwing 2012-05-15 01:33 am (UTC)(link)
No problem, thank you!
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-05-11 08:11 pm (UTC)(link)
In fairness, the only reason that Earth is still around after Galactus first visit is an almighty Deus ex Machina in the form of the Watcher breaking his aeons old, supposedly unbreakable, oath of non-interference, and letting Reed know about the Ultimate Nullifier. There was bugger all any human could have done to stop Galactus unaided, even the Fantastic Four.

And Scott has, in his time with X-Factor, dealt with a planet being judged by the Celestials, he's SEEN that level of cosmic in action.
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)

[personal profile] shadowpsykie 2012-05-11 08:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Rachel: FINALLY, someone remembers! Of course, just because Rachel could control the Phoenix Force doesn't mean Hope can do the same thing.

Yay! i was waiting for someone to say this!

i kinda see where Cyclops is coming from. I love Captain American, but i don't think he is infaulable. that said, i think there is a lot more "reaction" going on than "thinking" why not send an envoy to the Phoenix? or, since hope HAS connected with it, why not try talking to it through her?
shadowpsykie: Information (Hope Silly)

[personal profile] shadowpsykie 2012-05-11 09:25 pm (UTC)(link)
oh Norman Osborn took over ONCE, just because it happened once doesn't mean-

NO! *bash bash bash!* get back Norman! No! No, global take overs for you! You're in a time out!

[personal profile] hybrid2 2012-05-11 10:07 pm (UTC)(link)
"It's like to try to stop the wind from blowing and stop the rain from falling"

.....Call Storm or Thor!

It already killed billions it need to be stopped.
Was they're any mentions of the cosmic heroes?Where's Quasar?

[personal profile] spacebetween 2012-05-12 09:28 am (UTC)(link)
Probably with the other Annihilators (bar Gladiator). If not he is most likely off in space actually doing some hero work
crabby_lioness: (Default)

[personal profile] crabby_lioness 2012-05-11 11:06 pm (UTC)(link)
So the idea of sticking Hope on that space ship with Beast and letting her meet it before it destroyed any more planets trying to reach her never occurred to anyone but me?

Seems more sensible than what they've pulled so far.
esco: (Default)

[personal profile] esco 2012-05-11 11:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Cap wants to take Hope into custody and get her off world to try to divert the Phoenix away from Earth. Scott wants the Phoenix to come and save mutant kind.
Personally, I think Cap has the right idea.

crabby_lioness: (Default)

[personal profile] crabby_lioness 2012-05-11 11:17 pm (UTC)(link)
But Cap didn't send her out to meet it. He sent a hit squad instead. He's trying to control what isn't his to control.
autohobbs: (crashed Hobbie)

[personal profile] autohobbs 2012-05-12 01:09 am (UTC)(link)
He sent out a squad on a suicide mission to hold it back while he gets Hope. He's simply trying to delay its arrival, he knows it can't be stopped.
crabby_lioness: (Default)

[personal profile] crabby_lioness 2012-05-12 02:37 am (UTC)(link)
Scott's phone works just as good as Hank's. He could have called Scott when he called Hank.
autohobbs: (Default)

[personal profile] autohobbs 2012-05-12 10:01 am (UTC)(link)
Because we know Cyclops wouldn't have freaked out and sent Hope into hiding. It's evident by his response, that he's a total rational person right now. One a side-note. I LOVE your name. (Random, but my friends call me Crabby ^_^)
icon_uk: (Default)

[personal profile] icon_uk 2012-05-12 10:29 am (UTC)(link)
Cyclops being approached as an equal (Cap contacting him to discuss strategy), as opposed to someone who is supposed to behave like a good little peon (like having a squad of Avengers land on Utopia and be expected to fall into line because "CAP!") would probably have ended a LOT better.
esco: (Default)

[personal profile] esco 2012-05-12 02:45 am (UTC)(link)
Do you mean the Avengers sent into space? They were to stop and contain or at the least slow it down before reaching Earth.Only one actively trying to kill Hope is Wolverine. I'm pretty certain that Cap explicitly said in a panel that his plan was to bring Hope in and transport her off world.
crabby_lioness: (Default)

[personal profile] crabby_lioness 2012-05-12 03:00 am (UTC)(link)
That's what Cap said after the ship he sent had already left. It doesn't jibe.

[personal profile] spacebetween 2012-05-12 09:06 am (UTC)(link)
Well some good ideas can come later down the road, guess Cap was a bit slow on realising that.

Though when did the space team leave? It can get kind of hard to timeline some these multi-comic events at times.
esco: (Default)

[personal profile] esco 2012-05-12 11:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Preview for Avengers #26 has the pages where Cap sends the team to space. http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=12380

I don't understand what the hostility towards Cap is about. Is he a shady character or something? The only good points Cyclops has given was that the Avengers never help mutants and if the Phoenix wanted to destroy the Earth it would have done it before but both of those can be blamed on bad writing rather then on the characters.
glprime: (Default)

Monica is from New Orleans...

[personal profile] glprime 2012-05-12 12:18 am (UTC)(link)
... born-and-raised.

Also, U.S. Agent (Georgia), Razorback (Arkansas), Butterball (North Carolina), Texas Twister and Shooting Star (Texas).

So, yeah, Gambit is all kinds of wrong, but I get the feeling few of the Avengers are as broadly, openly as Southern as f#$%&ing GAMBIT or ROGUE, so he just doesn't care (ie, the writer didn't).

Re: Monica is from New Orleans...

[personal profile] long_silence 2012-05-12 02:12 am (UTC)(link)
Razorback, Butterball, Texas Twister and Shooting Star count as Avengers?
glprime: (Default)

Re: Monica is from New Orleans...

[personal profile] glprime 2012-05-12 02:32 am (UTC)(link)
Hey, if D-Man counts, anyone counts.

(To me, anyone recruited by founder Iron Man under the Initiative counts. You're expected to hold up the same standard as the NY Avengers, team name is just semantics; all the above are on Initiative teams)

Re: Monica is from New Orleans...

[personal profile] long_silence 2012-05-12 03:19 am (UTC)(link)
Man there have been a lot of skrull Avengers

Re: Monica is from New Orleans...

[personal profile] spacebetween 2012-05-12 09:24 am (UTC)(link)
D-Man counts more than what Razorback, Butterball, Texas Twister and Shooting Star would. I wouldn't count Initiative members as Avengers

[personal profile] darkknightjrk 2012-05-12 05:33 am (UTC)(link)
So, Cyclops is being a fatalist? Sheesh, good thing he never led a fight against Galactus.

That might actually help his argument that you can control the Phoenix if his ilk were able to make Galactus do a gentlemen's agreement not to feast on their planet.
schala_kid: Slowpoke Flash (flash)

[personal profile] schala_kid 2012-05-12 10:21 am (UTC)(link)
Nope, still think letting Hope get the Phoenix is a bad idea.