According to The Titans Companion, George Pérez considered making Jericho, his creation, gay—which probably in the mid-1980s would have meant fighting the company for some ambiguous portrayal.
But then Pérez thought that depicting a character he'd already decided was artistic and emotionally sensitive as homosexual would be perpetuating a stereotype.
Not to mention that this gay character would have come already nobly handicapped, and with the power to go inside people's bodies. The symbolisms could have been overwhelming.
Come to think of it, for someone whose power consisted of being disembodied and taking over other people's bodies, he had an awfully elaborate costume.
Okay, as far as fathers in comics who are total assholes? This guy. He TURNED KOLE'S MOM INTO A GRASSHOPPER. And as long as we're on the chemical tanks thing, I'd add: what was it with parents experimenting on their children? Although I might be misremembering Cyborg's origin, but what I recall is that in some ways it wasn't that far from this.
Actually, I wonder if this was Wolfman's veiled way of talking about child abuse, psychological and physical.
I propose a theme week, by the way: Bad Fathers(or just Bad Parents) In Comics. Anyone up for that? God knows in DC comics alone you won't run out of examples...
I disagree on the grounds that if we try it, we'll never be able to stop coming up with examples. There are comics were parents vs. kids are a prevalent theme. Heck, Runaways revolves around this.
What was with the Titans always ending up in some chem. tank ??? Tell me about it, I have the issue where they get stuck in the devolution tank. Almost the same setup as here; stuck in a tank half filled with bubbling green goo, slowly turning them into cavemen (Except for Star, who was becoming a cat girl), only to have it wear off the second they were free.
I mean they talk about how Claremont's writing was fetishtastic, but honestly the titans got it just as bad sometimes (Like how many times has Raven gone evil?)
What always irked me about the "fetishtastic" parts of Marv Wolfman's Titans stories was that Wolfman never actually did anything with it. The devolution tank was a prime example: the devolution wore off before the cavemen-Titans even got to do anything.
Likewise, Wolfman's Titans had a tendency to get mind-controlled (or similar) into becoming evil for a few pages, only long enough for a fight scene or a bit of shock value, and then just revert back to their good selves as if nothing had happened. (The Terror of Trigon story is one of the most spectacular examples: Page after page is spent on corrupting and turning each individual Titan evil... and then, after all that fuss, they only stay evil for the total of five pages and do nothing with their newfound evilness other than beat up on Raven and saying "Ha ha ha ha" before reverting to their good selves again the moment the plot no longer requires them to be evil.)
That's one of my major problems with Wolfman's stories, especially when he tries to do something big and grand: The climax is hardly ever worth the setup. I usually end up just thinking "was that was all the fuss was about?"
That said, I'll take the Wolfman's "wait, was that it?" Titans over the current "drop like flies in the most gruesome ways" Titans any day. ^_^
You mean like in cartoons, where characters are able to pull off the most impossible feats until someone points out that it is impossible? ^_^
That would actually have been kinda funny.
Titans: "GRRRRR! We devolved into evil cavemen!" Convenient passerby: "Hey, hang on! That's impossible! Evolution doesn't work like that!" Titans: "Really? Oh. Never mind then." *turn normal again*
Nah, Jason got his tentacle powers because he fought a dwarf who was secretly a shapeshifting tentacle monster who swallowed him, sealed in a lump of... well, let's not squick ourselves out this early in the morning and call it "resin", excreted him (ooh, there goes the squick) and left him to absorb through his skin for 24 hours.
I can see where he'd want to keep that a secret. Like a dwarf doesn't have enough to deal with every day already, what with the cruelty and prejudice and tall furniture. :(
I just realized something: In Jericho's current appearences he's evil, and in the past he had muttonchops. The muttonchops were what was keeping him good!
You wanna know how much of a psycho Kole's dad is? He's actually disappointed that all that happened to his daughter from his experiments was that she got stupid ol' crystal-making powers, but she didn't also turn into a cockroach, which was the point.
I notice, by the way, that he hasn't done the treatment on himself. And say, Kole's daddy--suppose the nuclear war never comes, which it didn't?
suppose the nuclear war never comes, which it didn't?
Then something else would have. Our suicide as a species was considered inevitable; the only question was which of our self-destructive behaviors would do us in first.
And for those of you who weren't around back then, yes, it really was that bleak and pessimistic of an era. I figured the odds of making it to my 30th (in 2000) to be about 50/50.
well, my 30th was in 1999 and I grew up in Charleston about ten miles from a naval weapons station, and a fairly major one. It's why stuff like SPECIAL BULLETIN was set there.
And you're right--the assumption of apocalypse was a given.
In Charleston they had to put "DRAMATIZATION" in every corner of the screen, despite that it purported to be a live broadcast, was clearly taking place during the day, but was shown at night.
Even so hundreds of people called into the station asking what "DRAMATIZATION" meant. "Does that mean it's REALLY dangerous?" reportedly said one.
This does not surprise me one bit. Look at the the switch over the Digital TV. 4 delays and 100 million in spending. Lets hope the June 12 th date hold. Imagine if it was something important the Gov was trying to tell people about ??????????
See, even tentacled, distorted insect girlsinsect boys insect things are helpless before the lure of the DiscoWing costume (Which seems to be split to the navel in this pic!
It's amazing how much humanity has tortured itself over the years over the perceived inevitability of this or that. Not having grown up in the Cold War years, it's almost impossible for me to grasp the sheer level of PANIC that must have bubbled under the surface of the public consciousness for so many years. Of course, there are still disasters looming - global warming is going to mess things up real good, you watch - but it's not as dramatic as it used to be.
Okay, third scan: Is Gar headbutting the glass wall? Everyone else is banging on it, and he's just headbutting it. This would make sense if he was like, a ram or rhino or something but he's just Gar!
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scans_daily2009-05-29 22:19
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Though it's true no self-respecting gay man would have had that hair after 1981. (and not those muttonchops since...I don't know, 1974)
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But then Pérez thought that depicting a character he'd already decided was artistic and emotionally sensitive as homosexual would be perpetuating a stereotype.
Not to mention that this gay character would have come already nobly handicapped, and with the power to go inside people's bodies. The symbolisms could have been overwhelming.
I seem to recall this, yes.
If I remember correctly, the guy was getting more tail than Dick at one point.
Re: I seem to recall this, yes.
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Actually, I wonder if this was Wolfman's veiled way of talking about child abuse, psychological and physical.
I propose a theme week, by the way: Bad Fathers(or just Bad Parents) In Comics. Anyone up for that? God knows in DC comics alone you won't run out of examples...
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And as I recall, Vic wasn't too happy about it. (seriously, talk about castration anxiety)
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But yeah, what happened with Vic and....THIS are worlds apart.
I dissagee.
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Tell me about it, I have the issue where they get stuck in the devolution tank. Almost the same setup as here; stuck in a tank half filled with bubbling green goo, slowly turning them into cavemen (Except for Star, who was becoming a cat girl), only to have it wear off the second they were free.
I mean they talk about how Claremont's writing was fetishtastic, but honestly the titans got it just as bad sometimes (Like how many times has Raven gone evil?)
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Likewise, Wolfman's Titans had a tendency to get mind-controlled (or similar) into becoming evil for a few pages, only long enough for a fight scene or a bit of shock value, and then just revert back to their good selves as if nothing had happened. (The Terror of Trigon story is one of the most spectacular examples: Page after page is spent on corrupting and turning each individual Titan evil... and then, after all that fuss, they only stay evil for the total of five pages and do nothing with their newfound evilness other than beat up on Raven and saying "Ha ha ha ha" before reverting to their good selves again the moment the plot no longer requires them to be evil.)
That's one of my major problems with Wolfman's stories, especially when he tries to do something big and grand: The climax is hardly ever worth the setup. I usually end up just thinking "was that was all the fuss was about?"
That said, I'll take the Wolfman's "wait, was that it?" Titans over the current "drop like flies in the most gruesome ways" Titans any day. ^_^
Well, I have a theory about that.
Maybe because someone pointed out that evolution doesn't even remotely work like that?
Re: Well, I have a theory about that.
That would actually have been kinda funny.
Titans: "GRRRRR! We devolved into evil cavemen!"
Convenient passerby: "Hey, hang on! That's impossible! Evolution doesn't work like that!"
Titans: "Really? Oh. Never mind then." *turn normal again*
Re: Well, I have a theory about that.
Re: Well, I have a theory about that.
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(Anonymous) 2009-05-29 23:15 (UTC)(link)no subject
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I can see where he'd want to keep that a secret. Like a dwarf doesn't have enough to deal with every day already, what with the cruelty and prejudice and tall furniture. :(
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I notice, by the way, that he hasn't done the treatment on himself. And say, Kole's daddy--suppose the nuclear war never comes, which it didn't?
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Then something else would have. Our suicide as a species was considered inevitable; the only question was which of our self-destructive behaviors would do us in first.
And for those of you who weren't around back then, yes, it really was that bleak and pessimistic of an era. I figured the odds of making it to my 30th (in 2000) to be about 50/50.
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And you're right--the assumption of apocalypse was a given.
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Even so hundreds of people called into the station asking what "DRAMATIZATION" meant. "Does that mean it's REALLY dangerous?" reportedly said one.
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insect girlsinsect boysinsect things are helpless before the lure of the DiscoWing costume (Which seems to be split to the navel in this pic!no subject
Wait...are those tiny hands?
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