stillanerd: (Default)
[personal profile] stillanerd posting in [community profile] scans_daily

 

As some you folks know, there was some recent controversy generated by an article from Colin Smith's "Too Busy Thinking About My Comics" blog, which concerns a scene from Amazing Spider-Man #685 (part 4 of Ends of the Earth) in which Spidey and Silver Sable attempt to get Sandman to reveal the location of various facilities that Doc Ock is using to construct his climate altering satellites.  Here's the scene in question:


 

Now you may be wondering why I'm even bothering to bring this up again.   Well, that's because this weeks Amazing Spider-Man #687, the finale for Ends of the Earth, did it for me.  During the scene in which Spidey and Silver Sable infiltrate Doc Ock's underwater base (which, in yet another nod to the classic Master Planner Saga, is also flooding), we have this exchange between them:

   

Now, the fact that Sandman's daughter could be used as leverage to get the Sandman to work for them makes perfect sense and was the very thing I brought up in the comments section when this topic came up right here on the Scans Daily. However, the fact that it's being brought up only now by Silver Sable at this point in the story is essentially an admission that the entire "acid-boarding the Sandman" scene was completely and utterly pointless!   Because if both Spidey and Silver Sable already knew they had the leverage of Sandman's daughter as a means to get him to cooperate, then why in the hell didn't they use it beforehand?  Why did they have to resort to pouring acid on him when they already knew there was a much easier and more ethical way to get him to talk and persuade him for his help?!

Oh, and note how Spidey states that Sandman wouldn't cooperate with them now considering what they did to him?  Well, Spidey, if you didn't allow Sable to pour acid on the Sandman in the first place, then he wouldn't have had a score to settle with you, now would he?  You're basically admitting that Silver Sable made the situation worse; but if you knew this was the case then why didn't you anything to stop her?!  For a guy who is supposed to a super-genius--something which Dan Slott has repeatedly reminded us over and over again--you sure can be a complete and utter moron at times.

Date: 2012-06-13 10:28 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Spidey & MJ)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Might want to put this under a cut.

Date: 2012-06-13 10:34 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
*sigh* and this is why so far, no matter what DC hsa done, it is getting 75% of my comics money and Marvel is getting.. MAYBE 25%

Date: 2012-06-14 02:00 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
This is why DC gets 10%, Marvel gets 10%, Antarctic Press and Red 5 get about 20% between the two of them, IDW gets 30%, and Archie gets 40%.

Date: 2012-06-14 03:47 pm (UTC)
halloweenjack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] halloweenjack
This is why I don't have a pull list at my LCS.

Date: 2012-06-14 06:26 pm (UTC)
cleome45: (lightning1)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
I tried to make one, but a giant glowing winged credit card with drippy fangs swooped down from the sky and carried it away. :p

Date: 2012-06-14 01:43 am (UTC)
nefrekeptah: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nefrekeptah
Did it maybe occur to anyone that they did try that, and Sandman refused to believe them, because there's no way he'd go along with Ock's plan in the first place unless he was convinced that he would'nt go through with his "kill everyone on earth" plan?

Date: 2012-06-14 02:03 am (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
No, because Silver Sable is talking about it like it's still a perfectly reasonable option, and Spider-man's only rebuttal is, 'oh but you poured acid on him'.

Date: 2012-06-14 02:33 am (UTC)
nefrekeptah: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nefrekeptah
Maybe because by that point Otto wasn't pretending to want to save the world anymore, making it that much easier to convince him, especially with Rino right there freely admitting it. And it is a valid point.

Date: 2012-06-14 04:55 am (UTC)
nefrekeptah: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nefrekeptah
So they give him some more sand and bring him with them. Not a big problem there.

Secondly, what evidence has he got that he can save Keemia, or that Keemia even needs saving in the first place? Especially considering that Spidey's the reason Marko lost his daughter, giving Marko a very good reason not to trust anything Spider-Man says. A big reason that this arc was so interesting was that Spidey had no evidence whatsoever that Doc Ock was going to do anything other than what he said he would do, going only by past experience and gut feeling, which might be enough for his friends, but not his enemies.

After all, if he wasn't convinced Doc Ock was really out to destroy the world before, what would convince him now? Octopus and Rhino dropping all pretenses and admitting to it, that's what.

See, the fact that it's makes no since that they didn't try it before is what makes me think that they did, and we just didn't see it. Because not only is it out of character for Spider-Man to stoop to something so objectionable before trying out every possible alternative, it's also a big faux pas on Dan Slott, who has previously shown to have a great understanding of Spider-Man and written some of my favorite Spidey moments in recent memory, including one scene in just the issue right before this one. Basically, I have too much faith in the writer to think he got that part of Spider-Man so badly wrong.

Date: 2012-06-14 04:59 am (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
You're just making up a lot of things that aren't in the story. If Silver Sable says 'hey maybe we could try this' the obvious implication is that they haven't tried it yet. I don't know how on earth you're concluding the opposite.

Date: 2012-06-14 05:03 am (UTC)
nefrekeptah: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nefrekeptah
Yeah, because the story doesn't make since otherwise and it's a perfectly legitimate explanation. That's were I'm getting it.

Date: 2012-06-14 05:15 am (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
Either way, your faith in the writer is misplaced. He has either "gotten Spider-man wrong", or created a scene that is so badly written that it implies the exact opposite of what it is intended to. Why doesn't Spider-man simply respond, "we tried that, it didn't work"? So it is not a legitimate explanation in the sense that it is the opposite of what we are shown.

Date: 2012-06-14 01:31 pm (UTC)
kraesil: (superboy newspaper-palm)
From: [personal profile] kraesil
...*facedesk*.

Yay for contradictory logic?

Date: 2012-06-14 06:28 pm (UTC)
cleome45: (fire1)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
I can't decide if this whole thing is more or less depressing/tasteless/off-putting than that mess involving Chameleon and whether or not Peter had drunk sex with his then-roommate.

Maybe we could just declare a tie.

Date: 2012-06-14 07:28 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Oh god, don't even remind me. I love how people still try to justify Pete's behavior in not telling his roommate that she might have been raped.

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