Avengers Vs X-Men #6

[shadowpsykie]

This was actually a pretty good issue... Pretty Damn good really. It seems like the actual "meat" Of the story has come into play.




So the Phoenix 5 actually go about bringing peace to the earth... Outlawing war, and the building of weapons, feeding the poor, and revitalizing barren land. Freeing up people to work towards advancements in technology that enrich life instead of destroy it... hell Colossus even ends fights by TALKING instead of fighting

Cap and the rest of the Avengers (minus Black Panther who actually kinda thinks what they are doing is actually pretty good. And honestly so do I)are still trying to find a way to take them out, and Wolverine's all for being Mr. Stabby McStabbers (as per usual).

well blah blah blah the Avengers decide the need Hope... literally, they break into Utopia to kidnap Hope... (and honestly... it looks pretty bad.. i mean the cold cock one Gabriel and a couple of the kids just to grab a screaming Hope... it looks REALLY bad...)

so Scott and Emma Confronts them and next thing you know....







This second part is from the digital comic, it's a glimps into Scotts mind and how he is handling the Phoenix Force, he ends up on the Blue Side of the moon... he sees "The Weapon" Jean used on herself and then walks to the spot where she killed herself... he decides he needs to talk to some one about what he is going through and this is what he does...

(Note: Let me know if these are too many scans... these few here are from a digital comic and i am not sure if these are pages... or panels or a mixture of both....)





















Essentially what Moon Jean says is that the Phoenix Amplifies the hosts strongest attributes. In Jean it strengthened her emotions. In Scott's it amplifies his i guess, control and analytical mind. Jean however is careful to stat that the danger of the Phoenix is not losing or maintaining control, but losing sense with one's self and one's humanity. With the Phoenix, everything else became so small. That the host can lose sight of what life means. (and i think what they all miss is that LIFE means STRUGGLE, and one of the things the 5 are doing is eliminating that struggle...)

Any ways, the bigger thing i think to take away from this is something you might miss... see that last panel... in Scott's hand... it's the moon dust...

Talking to Jean here... the Sinisters in Uncanny... The moon dust... i might be reading too much into this... but i REALLY think the clues to them bringing Jean back are really piling up.

Comments

[md84]

Emotions never were Scott's strong suit.

And what Jean says about the Phoenix making its hosts lose their perspective, it's not exactly groundbreaking. Reminds me of the famous scene from "The Third Man" when someone tries to justify his evil actions by showing the protagonist the view from atop a Ferris Wheel and showing him how all the people on the ground look like dots, and that it's much easier to sacrifice them for profit since they don't look like people from that height anymore.

And while Scott's goal is a noble one, he's already lost it by imposing his own will -- however gently -- on all of humanity without their informed consent.

The Phoenix Five also need to keep in mind that the power they possess came at the cost of billions of lives.

[icon_uk]

"... And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
"It's a lot more complicated than that--"
"No it ain't. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they're getting worried that they won't like the truth. People as things, that's where it starts."
"Oh, I'm sure there are worse crimes-"
"But they starts with thinking about people as things…"

Granny Weatherwax discusses the nature of sin with a preacher in "Carpe Jugulum" (Not the first to express that sentiment of course, but I like the brevity of it)

[stillanerd]

Okay, I agree that what the Avengers did in this issue was fundamentally stupid. I mean seriously, did Cap honestly think that trying to take Hope off of Utopia again would lead to different results? That's how this whole mess started to begin with.

However, while it appears that the Phoenix Five are potentially making a paradise on Earth, who appointed them the de facto rulers of the world? No one. At the very least, they are eliminating all conventional weapons and WMDs in very country irregardless of sovereignty or those governments wishes. Anyone remember the scene of Superman at the UN in Superman IV: The Quest for Peace (which the Nostalgia Critic poked fun at)? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=316gDuZl9cs
Same difference here. While what they are doing is for the good of the world, they are still imposing their will as opposed to being an example for others and allowing them to have free will.

Also, isn't interesting that, despite all this time in which Cyclops has been telling the other mutants to put their trust in Hope, counting on her joining with the Phoenix Force to restore all mutants from the brink of extinction, not only does he not think Hope isn't ready or worthy to have the Phoenix yet, but he and the other Phoenix Five have done NOTHING to solve this problem in spite of, as far as we know, having the power to do so?

[auggie18]

Also, isn't interesting that, despite all this time in which Cyclops has been telling the other mutants to put their trust in Hope, counting on her joining with the Phoenix Force to restore all mutants from the brink of extinction, not only does he not think Hope isn't ready or worthy to have the Phoenix yet, but he and the other Phoenix Five have done NOTHING to solve this problem in spite of, as far as we know, having the power to do so?

THANK YOU.

I'm sorry, but wasn't the whole point of getting the Phoenix re-mutating all the former mutants? Or at least doing something to make sure that the species would continue? And, hey, Emma, why not bring back some of those dead students of yours? You know, from every single class you've ever taught? That might be a good, in-character use of your new-found power.

[nefrekeptah]

I'd say more fundamentally desperate than stupid - it's the only plan against the Phoenix Five that isn't suicidal and ideally where no one gets hurt.

[nefrekeptah]

I do like these kind of stories. There's a very real chance of the Avengers being paranoid, and there's a very real chance of the Five going nuts with their godlike power and going to far - there's hints of both throughout the issue.

[darkknightjrk]

"who actually kinda thinks what they are doing is actually pretty good. And honestly so do I"

I think what makes it questionable is the power that they wield--because of it, any decision they make is an implicit threat, and really, there's no such thing as true peace if it's under the barrel of a gun.

[sun_man]

This event is terrible straight up terrible. God and I thought Fear Itself was bad. This is atrocious.

[tsunamiwombat]

It's bad, yes. Poorly written, poorly characterized.. but, at least we have a canon exscuse for how batshit the characters are acting. THE PHEONIX FORCE IZ MAKIN EM CRAZY

[skemono]

So, remembering your first love is human, but recreating effigies of them out of moon dust is not?

[shadowpsykie]

well.. the rest of the comic shows that he feels no attachment to the place. or in fact to jean... he thinks of her and the place in terms of ideas "sacrifice" "heroic" "tragic" but he doesn't feel the emotions attached to those words. Scott summers would NEVER have created an effigy of Jean BECAUSE of what happened. if anything, he would have brought her back all the way. Not created this as a sounding board... so yeah. Memory and emotion in this sense are not exactly the same thing.

[kenn_el]

It's too bad the Phoenix force doesn't manifest in different colors.

[mastermahan]

It used to - Jean originally rocked green and gold. Apparently the Batfamily color scheme is infectious.

Though really, I'd just be happy if Scott got rid of his little bird thong.

[lucky_gamble]

The Scarlet Witch really needs a new costume. Everything about it looks so dated.

[auggie18]

I always liked this look on her:

http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel//universe3zx/images/thumb/3/38/ScarletWitch442.jpg/406px-ScarletWitch442.jpg


Plus, it has pants. Kinda.

[zechs80]

Bah!! This clearly shows heroes truly do have bias toward Doom. Tsk tsk tsk...

[crinos]

Well, I guess the Avengers are damn lucky Wanda didn't hold a grudge about Visions whole "You are no longer welcome here" thing at the start of all this, considering how badly beat up they got by the Phoenix five.

Speaking of, where IS Vision?

[spacebetween]

He was with the team that attempted to slow the Phoenix down on it's way to Earth. So it could be he hasn't returned yet. Mind you considering how they are releasing things out of order is hard to tell where he is.

[mastermahan]

Hope voluntarily left Utopia with the Scarlet Witch, a fellow mutant. Time to destroy the Avengers!

[shadowpsykie]

Well. . Wanda is pretty much the reason the Phoenix got pissed to begin with

[spacebetween]

While I can't fault their intentions and motives, it is a bit hypocritical of the X-Men improving the world that way. I'm fairly sure they have stepped in a few times to stop someone or a group from doing the exact same thing in the past. Mind you I could be thinking of a different team altogether.

[shadowpsykie]

I agree. I can't call them straight up villains. But yeah. Went about it the wrong way

[crabby_lioness]

(and i think what they all miss is that LIFE means STRUGGLE, and one of the things the 5 are doing is eliminating that struggle...)

I have so many problems with that statement IDK where to even start.

What they are doing is noble, but they're only removing the Maslow's first-tier problems. Assuming it even works, it does nothing about the inner demons that drove far too many people to create or exacerbate those problems in the first place.

Instead of eliminating struggle, for far too many people they're just exposing the underlying struggles.

[crabby_lioness]

Sorry I was too tired last night to explain better.

For all their cartoon powers, what the P5 are doing is not that unrealistic in the modern day. In the early 21st Century we have the resources and technology to end world hunger and world poverty. I've seen people run the numbers, and I've run them myself. It's a problem on the scale of NASA's original assignment of getting people to the moon and back when all they've done is invent the ICBM at that point -- it looks impossibly large but it actually breaks down into a bunch of tough but solvable problems.

It's the stupidity that's the stumbling block. There's an 18th Century joke that sums it up -- A fairy godmother offered one wish to a Frenchman, an Englishman, and a Russian. The Frenchman wanted his people to become the world's greatest lovers. The Englishman wanted his people to become the world's greatest horsemen. The Russian wanted to kill his neighbor's cow. We can plant fields of food for everyone, but how do we stop the stupid from setting fire to their neighbor's crops?

And one of the stupidities that's standing in the way of progress is the notion that people have to be motivated by denying them their basic needs. That is utter and absolute BULLSHIT. It assumes that people are mindless cattle, without hopes, dreams, fears, and aspirations of their own that they would drive them instead of their basic needs if their basic needs were met.

LOOK AROUND YOU. The industrialized word is full of people who are motivated by their fears and their hopes instead of their bellies. The thousands of people who are arguing passionately on both sides of, say, the abortion issue are not motivated by hunger and the lack of a roof over their heads. They tend to have those needs met, and they are arguing instead from deeply held moral convictions with diametrically opposed priorities. (See Lakoff.)

As dh puts it, "If I didn't have to worry about my income, I would be the busiest person in town. There's all these projects I want to do that I have to put on hold in order to earn a paycheck." The struggle to meet basic needs is not the biggest MOTIVATOR in people's lives, it's the biggest INHIBITOR.

[starwolf_oakley]

(and i think what they all miss is that LIFE means STRUGGLE, and one of the things the 5 are doing is eliminating that struggle...)

The Phoenix 5 might be mixing up STRUGGLE with SUFFER. Pretty much every member (except maybe Emma) has decided at one point or another "I don't want people to suffer" and "My power can make things better for other people." They Phoenix is just ramping those feeling all the way up.

[selke]

Such pretty art in that first bit.

[righthondude]

AvX seems to be taking a significant few weeks, marvel comic time. I think this issue was a week by itself?

[cypherfdp]

This implies that Scott wasn't being a pragmatic bastard until he got the FEENICKS FOURSE, which is entirely inaccurate.

[biod]

Before, he was an angry pragmatic bastard.

[brooms]

i love coipel so much.

flat chested hope <3

[icon_uk]

So the Phoenix 5 actually go about bringing peace to the earth... Outlawing war, and the building of weapons, feeding the poor, and revitalizing barren land. Freeing up people to work towards advancements in technology that enrich life instead of destroy it... hell Colossus even ends fights by TALKING instead of fighting

Last person I remember doing that was Doctor Doom in "Emperor Doom", it's not a free choice if by your very nature you're terrifying your subject.

[nyadnar17]

So what? Who have the X-men used force on that they shouldn't have? Have they overthrown the US government? No. Did they impose their western views on communism on China by "freeing" its people? No. Hell they didn't even overthrow Monarchies that Latveria and Wakanda.

So far all they have done is use their power to try to help fix mankind's universally recognized problems-energy, pollution, food- and the only people they have used physical force on are those who remain in power by use of physical force-dictators, warlords, and crime cartels.

So far the Phoenix Five seem very aware that they can't fix everything, and in the meantime they are solving the most egregious problems faced by mankind to allow mankind the breathing room to solve the rest. They fact that they are doing this while resisting the Phoenix's urging them to change things faster makes it all the more laudable.

[ar_feiniel]

Something about that helmet...it just screams Liefeld to me.

[amaresu]

Didn't Scott once help sick the Silver Surfer on his own son to stop this sort of thing? And Cable was using his telepathy to make sure that the majority of the population of the planet agreed with him. Without mindwiping anyone.

Whoever was in charge of this event needs to be sent to their room to think about what they've done.

[vitruvian23]

Jean's already come back since the Moon, had a long career with the X-Men long after the Dark Phoenix incident, including being a Phoenix avatar, was killed by Xorneto, and has a quite intact corpse on Earth. If Scott wanted to reflect on her, why didn't he visit her grave site on Earth?

[needagasmask]

Especially considering the fact that the thing that died on the moon wasn't Jean at all.