Worlds' Finest #3

[aeka]

Now featuring the return of TWO things iconic to Power Girl??

But first, Helena Wayne's reaction finding out there's a MALE Robin in Gotham!



Judging by Kara's comments and the "45 months ago" tag, I take it Helena discovered either Dick Grayson or Jason Todd as Robin. Given her history with Dick, I'm inclined to go with the latter.

(I wonder how she'll react to Damian??? Also, I'm not liking the implication that Earth-1 Bruce being an adoptive father makes him less of a father compared to *her* Bruce on Earth-2 or that being an adopted child makes that child less of a child of Bruce. I don't recall Paul Levitz ever writing Helena Wayne as a supercilious jerk pre-Crisis. >.>)

And now, more on Karen:



The return of Stinky the Cat? (I still wish she would've named him "Hunter").

And that's not all! There is also...



The return of the iconic boob window?? Hmmm....I sense forshadowing. Or at least my headcanon tells me Karen will eventually realise how terrible that "P" logo looks on her costume and will eventually have an epiphany. >.>

And just for LOLs, I give you Tree Huntress:



Nevertheless, Tree Huntress makes the best of her situation:

Comments

[superboyprime]

I don't think she means an adopted child is less. She means a child who hasn't had a lifetime of training would be less.

[cypherfdp]

Which Damian had.

Granted, as an assassin, not a Robin, but close enough.

[janegray]

Yeah, sure, technically a ten year old who has been training for 10 years has been training for a lifetime. But in general people don't think "ten years" when they think "lifetime."

Seriously, the kid hasn't even hit puberty yet.

[jaybee3]

I'm not sure I like the idea of Kara using her body/sex/whatever to get Michael (I didn't even like the fact she was apparently using him all along in the Mr. Terrific title either). That sounds incredibly out of character from the pre-reboot PG.

And the whole biological vs. adopted storyline COULD be interesting - if they went anywhere with it, but I don't think they will. We know Damien is obsessed/proud of the fact that he's the only one blood-related to Bruce (which is why the now retconned out baby Helena Kyle to be Bruce's - just to see Damien's face). But there was also that moment in Infinite Crisis where Earth-2 Superman actually admits to Bruce that the Dick Grayson he knows is actually a better man than the Earth-2 version (of course that line was a set-up since Didio was still planning on killing Dick off at the time but still...).

I for one think it would be VERY interesting to see Helena W. meet up with Cassandra Cain, who even as Black Bat would probably have her backstory largely intact, which would mean that Earth-1 Bruce took this girl in at the same age as when Helena seemingly lost her dad on Earth-2 and made a positive difference in her life. Of course for that to happen DC would actually have to use Cassandra Cain -which we know isn't going to happen - and have scenes where we actually get to see her thoughts on things (like when we didn't get her reaction to when both Bruce "died" and when he came back to life although we saw both Dick and Timmy's mourning and relief) but its a thought regardless.

[stolisomancer]

Just going off the Power Girl series and considering this is a younger, less jaded version of PG, I could see her using feminine wiles to attempt to get close enough to Holt to get an idea of what his research is about, and then ending up as his friend instead. Her entire deal in this book so far is being monomaniacally focused on getting back to her Earth, after all, and she really isn't the same character.

[aeka]

Considering that pre-Flashpoint Power Girl was the same Power Girl from the Pre-Crisis continuity, I can't say I agree that this is a good development for her, or that it's suddenly "in character" for her to use her feminine wiles to achieve her goals just because this is a relaunched version of the character. I don't mind the changes that were made to her backstory (i.e., establishing her as Supergirl before becoming Power Girl), but making changes to her personality are pretty huge changes.

[stolisomancer]

When I think of pre-Flashpoint PG, I think of the good old mummy-puncher. If it was her in the World's Finest situation, she'd have flown into Michael Holt's office in the dead of night and said, "Lemme see your research and here's why."

From what I've seen of Levitz's take just from the World's Finest book, this PG is still very smart and very practical, but less likely to go straight for the punching solution. I do like the character beat that she'd think to try using feminine wiles and end up in - and I only read the first issue of Mister Terrific, so correct me if I'm wrong - a platonic friendship with the guy instead. That says a lot and it's a fun twist on the standard "go in and vamp to get what I want" ploy.

I'll admit that I am at best a very casual PG reader, though, so you are almost certainly working with a greater knowledge of the character.

[jaybee3]

At this point I have (though its hard) try to think that THIS PG is an entirely new character than the one that starred in 3 titles (JSA, JSA:All Stars, and Power Girl) pre-reboot (that was one than even Wonder Woman). This new Power Girl is actually in personality seemingly more similar to the Earth-1 Supergirl (pre-Crisis), which is weird since the new reboot of Supergirl who is harder and tougher despite her age is more similar to the pre-reboot Power Girl.

[aeka]

Agreed. Power Girl from both the pre-Crisis and post-Crisis continuities was known to be aggressive, impulsive, have a temper, and she especially responded poorly to sexism and misogyny and hated being otherised. While she was not against casual sex and having romantic relationships, Peege was still picky about who she got romantically or sexually involved with. This version of Peege is depicted as boy-crazy and less intelligent to the point of needing to use her body to get what she needs.

[aeka]

I'm not sure I like the idea of Kara using her body/sex/whatever to get Michael (I didn't even like the fact she was apparently using him all along in the Mr. Terrific title either). That sounds incredibly out of character from the pre-reboot PG.

I made that same complaint on my Tumblr, amongst many others.

I get that these are supposed to be newer, younger versions of the character and all, but I still wish Levitz would actually have them do (and subsequently say things) that actually make sense for their characters.

Cass and Helena meeting would be pretty nifty though. ♥

[jaybee3]

Just looking over at your tumblr criticisms I have to agree. The "fat" thing is ridiculous for virtually any comics super-heroine to say because they're almost all drawn as slim and incredibly attractive (this is true with these two characters). The adoptive vs. biological I blame less on Levitz and more on pop culture (think about all the TV characters who were adopted find their bio parents and immediately bond with them and we never see the adoptive parents again). There was a joke in the Avengers movie that got a lot of laughs where Thor dismisses Loki (after hearing of his misdeeds) by saying "he was adopted". Even in DC itself, Jade/Jenni was the only character who was adopted who maintained a good relationship with her adoptive parents (and even that was dropped in recent years with her only having a relationship with Alan).

The Power Girl one gets me because the pre-reboot Kara WAS a genius. She had grown in her pod learning all the advanced Kryptonian technology and put it to use in her own software company (none of this Superman putting her in an orphanage stuff like what happened to Earth-1 Supergirl). The idea that someone who looked like THAT (basically every man's dream girl) was also a technological genius and smart businesswoman made PG stand out (plus the fact she was nonchanlant about it all - no showing off). Now we have Kara planning on using her looks/body to get close to Michael Holt and having to "hire geniuses" to do her work for her. Seems more a regression to me.

[medster_comics]

We never know if M.Levitz invent a new Kryptonian animal why not a tiger or lion or a monkey (lol Hunter the Supermonkey) or a very rare animal in Earth.

[kenn_el]

I read Hel's comments about Robins completely differently (and I'm usually sensitive to adoption stuff), as Levitz confirming that there was no Dick Grayson-as-Robin on Earth 2. Any of the Earth 1 Robins that Hel and Karen might have been referring to would not have Helena's situation of having been born to a married couple and raised by them to become a Robin (though we still don't know if Selina continued in any costumed identity in this universe, either), all of them having spent less time as a Boy Wonder than I did at my after school job. And you're referring to them as 'adoptees'. Has that been established anywhere in the new continuity?
I'm interested as to whether Dick Grayson will make an appearance on Earth 2. Were his parents killed? If Bruce was out with Helena (and possibly Selina), then Dick's course in life would be remarkably different than his Earth 1 counterpart's. OR it could have been surprisingly similar. Maybe a Nightwing who never was a Robin. Or a Batman.

[aeka]

I do see your point....though I would feel inclined to believe your interpretation more if there wasn't any emphasis on needing to be born to be Robin, and if the narrative didn't specify that this scene takes place 45 months (roughly 4 years) ago, which would--at best--be towards the end of Dick's time in the Robin mantle. Taking the rest of current continuity (as clusterfucked as it is) into account, the other Boy Wonders have not yet taken on the mantle and Jason Todd would at the very least just be starting out.

At best, the "my father wouldn't have settled for less" could also be interpreted as Helena stating her father wouldn't have allowed a kid to take on the Robin mantle and fight crime after a short period of training and I can imagine Selina wanting to "scratch [Bruce's] eyes out" on that alone. But there's not enough context to fully imply that, and even less so with how the rest of the scene plays out.

[amaresu]

and if the narrative didn't specify that this scene takes place 45 months (roughly 4 years) ago, which would--at best--be towards the end of Dick's time in the Robin mantle.

Why would that be Dick at all? I'm thinking the Robin she's looking at is Tim. I mean if we take Batman Inc into consideration and the flashbacks presented in it than Batman has been operational for a bare minimum of 11 years. Even cutting down the time for this continuities version of Red Hood: The Lost Days and you still have more time needed than the 4 years presented for Jason to go from Robin to Red Hood. The Robin she's looking at has to be Tim.

Also, is your icon stealable?

[aeka]

I was going by the stance DC has maintained about "superheroes having appeared only five years ago, with Superman being the first superhero." Taking into account that the killing joke is still in continuity and Barbara was paralysed for three years, I'm inclined to believe it's Dick that Helena's referring to. The added bonus is that Helena Wayne does have more history with Dick (he was her adopted brother pre-Crisis) and has no connection to the other Robins. So I also interpreted this scene as Levitz alluding to that fact.

And you are free to snag the icon if you like. :)

[amaresu]

But Damian is 10 years old. In Batman Inc #2 we see when Talia and Bruce got together and he was Batman at the time. So unless there is wacky time things going on Bruce has to have been Batman for at least 11 years.

I've been taking the 5 year thing to mean the Justice League and superheroes being out of the closest and such. Even taking Buddy Baker into consideration 5 years just doesn't work. Maxine is 4 and Buddy was already Animal Man when she was conceived. So even his timeline is horribly squished if we go with 5 years. If we presume that Superman was out and doing his thing for a bit before the JL formed and the 5 years is from JL onwards the timeline almost works. But for the histories that they're giving various characters 5 years just isn't plausible.

Edit: That is to say I think the 5 years has to be as superheroes being publicly recognized. Rather than urban legends. With Superman being the first non-urban-legend-we-have-media-proof-superhero.

Icon snagged. Thanks.

[aeka]

But Damian is 10 years old. In Batman Inc #2 we see when Talia and Bruce got together and he was Batman at the time. So unless there is wacky time things going on Bruce has to have been Batman for at least 11 years.

Batman being active for that long doesn't mean he's had a Robin for that long.

If we presume that Superman was out and doing his thing for a bit before the JL formed and the 5 years is from JL onwards the timeline almost works. But for the histories that they're giving various characters 5 years just isn't plausible.

I agree, but DC does not appear to be playing from that angle with the deaging of their characters and making drastic changes to many character histories to fit their newer continuity. Some things they left in continuity, other things got retconned out.

[jlbarnett]

I think the first issues of Action said Superman started six years ago and the League started five

[icon_uk]

Damian's age is open to debate, considering how Talia seems to have genetically engineered him, and used an artificial womb to grow him in (as she is doing for his replacement, and the suggestion that Talia's current right hand guy might actually BE Damian 2.0 aged to adulthood), it's entirely possible he's been speed grown to look like he's 10.

[sistermagpie]

I would assume they're still adoptees given the family scenes they have. But I agree with aeka, I didn't see how what else the emphasis on having to be "born" a Robin implied other than referencing the biological connection.

[kenn_el]

But that's my point. Helena WAS 'born a Robin'. That's how she sees that particular role being filled. Therefore, the implication is that there was no Dick/Robin prior to her to invalidate her assertion. Earth 1's Intern program is not something she relates to, nor something she seems to necessarily approve of. Th adoption thing makes no sense ven the timeline, unless Bruce is using his status as a one per center to bypass the normal red tape of adoption. Dick has been established to have been at least 15 while still in the circus, and the possibility of a batchelor (see what I did there?), albeit wealthy, adopting a succession of teen males within a five to ten year span stretches credulity, even in a universe where people fly.

[sistermagpie]

Yes, I agree with you about Helena. I meant that's what the "born" thing referred to--not understanding that Robin doesn't just mean child of Batman.

Whether or not the adoption thing technically makes sense, they all still relate to each other the way they did before, sitting for "family portraits" as the Waynes, which indicates that these aren't just a couple of boys who interned at Wayne enterprises for a while. And since the idea that these guys were Robin for five minutes imo makes far less sense for character and story purposes than the technical issues of their legal status, the latter is always going to be the one I'm going to ignore. It's the same conflict they've always had in the Batverse--they want everyone to relate to each other as family, but freak out when they realize this means Bruce has fairly grown children. So it's the same as always--time within the Batfamily is compressed for maximum depth of relationships and minimum aging.

[kenn_el]

That's why I LIKE Earth 2, and was against the World's Finest taking place on Earth 1. With the Earth 2 concept DC was allowing for a hard reboot, of which I approve, even though I understand them not having the guts to do it in the 'regular' universe with their cash cows like the Bat Family. I'd much rather read a World's Finest in which Earth 2 Kara and Helena had to take over for their cousin/parents and be the Big Two of that Earth, all while the new JSA was popping up. On Earth 1, they're not only redundant, but comparisons, such as the one cited, just emphasize how badly DC has handled the 'soft' reboot and its accompanying timelines.
The Wayne Family Portrait just seems creepier under the new circumstances, and screams out for a new character to be added to the Gotham mythos: A hard-nosed by-the-book Child Welfare Worker!

[icon_uk]

I agree that Helena seems to be referencing a complete absence of Robin on Earth-2 other than herself.

[kenn_el]

I'm HOPING there's a version of him on Earth 2! Maybe he went after his parents' killers, but took a 'darker' tone, not having Bruce to influence him? OR it could be impressive if it were shown that even WITHOUT Buce, Dick might have become the heroic guy he is on Earth 1?

[runespoor]

"I thought you had to be born to be Robin"
Oh, no, Kara, honey, you're confusing with being born a Kryptonian. That's the best thing about normals: there's no such thing as good genes and bad genes! Birth isn't a factor and who your parents are certainly doesn't make you any more or less worthy of being a hero! Isn't it beautiful? :)

DC can take their nature vs nurture bullshit fetichism and choke on it.

[aeka]

But didn't you know? Even on planets Earth-1 and 2 there are normals who otherise other normals into categories because of good and bad genes, looking and sounding differently, not being from the same country, and oh so many other things. I don't know...I think Kara may have a point there! It's not just those damn Kryptonians.

In all seriousness, the more I read the New 52 versions of Kara and Helena, the more I want their pre-Crisis selves back. I can live with Wayne being more Bertinelli-like in her fighting style, but I want her pre-Crisis personality back. She didn't take issue with having an adopted brother even if *things* happened. ._.

[whitesycamore]

So Helena's kind of a pompous jerk now?

How fun.

[jlbarnett]

she's her father's daughter. Batman trained from age eight to probably around the early twenties before becoming Batman. Helena may have begun even earlier. Dick or Jason only had a few years of training.

[weber_dubois22]

Oh, God, just let the boob window die already.

[aeka]

What's wrong with the boob window? I honestly found artists inflating Power Girl's breasts with helium in the artwork and the constant joking about her breast size far more problematic than Peege showing a little cleavage. :/

[mastermahan]

So has it been confirmed that Helena's dad was Bruce, and not, say, Thomas Jr.? I found it really odd in the first issue when she wasn't sure who Batman was.