Cass and Steph Hang Out

[espanolbot]

Back in the days when Batman was an ass, Cass was Batgirl and Steph was Spoiler, Bruce had just gone his usual routine of banning her from superheroics again for the umpteenth time. To try and make it stick, he rings Cass to tell her to not hang out with Steph, even though at this point Steph is the closest thing she has to a friend besides Barbara.















And the Snyder news via DCwomenKickingAss via IGN, namely DC aren't letting them being used anywhere, which as been interpreted as Steph being yanked from Smallville as well... which I hope is a misunderstanding, really.
http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/post/27059914653/sbgone

Comments

[beoweasel]

It seems to me that DC likes being dicks to their readers. Just the other day, I was talking to my roommate and he mentions that they introduced Artemis (from the Young Justice series) into the Titans, only to immediately kill her off.

[eyz]

Oh, so true.... :(

[runespoor]

Oh, guess I won't be buying any DC in September either.

*screAMS*

[biod]

Everything you need to know and love about the Steph/Cass relationship is in that fifth page.

[drexer]

"which as been interpreted as Steph being yanked from Smallville as well"
Well no, BleedingCool launched that rumour before the interview with Snyder, and there hasn't been any response yet.

Which if it is true will make me very very angry.

[sinesofinsanity]

Ugh, there is too much about Steph out there I don't know what to believe. First there was the "She's batgirl, no she's spoiler, no she's batgirl again" thing in Batman Inc, then there's the confusion about whether she'd even be back in Batman Inc, now there's this... I'm seriously tempted to just ignore all spoilers and speculation and just buy comics on a one month delay so I can go by reviews if they're worth buying or not.

All these rumours are TEARING ME APART

[mommy]

This is the era when I loved the Batfamily the most, including Steph.

[q99]

I liked this era, and the era *right* before the reboot.

[terrykun]

Stephanie's interactions with Cassandra are my second favorite, after Cassandra and Jean-Paul. :)

[shadowpsykie]

Cassandra interacted with Jean-Paul?

[terrykun]

...well /there's/ a post I need to put together. Oh yes they did. It was beautiful and heartbreaking. *hugs the little human weapons*

[littlepunkryo]

Lord if that BC rumor about Steph being yanked off Smallville is true, tumblr is gonna lose its damn mind. Not that I'd blame them.

[angelophile]

Always loved this scene, but the art... um... yeah.

[mrstatham]

I never liked the goof that Steph got turned into to make Cass look good. I know Cass had the superior training by far, but it always aggravated me that they treated Steph like comic relief to make the gimp-masked Batgirl look cooler.

[kenn_el]

Not to mention that Cass' origin was at least partially a rip-off of Steph's, in that they both were the offspring of Bat-foes looking to take a different path.
It would be easy enough to re-introduce a Steph into the new Universe, either in Teen Titans (due to Tim's presence) or any one of the hundred BatBooks, because as Spoiler she DOES have a stand-alone identity. Unsure as to why they can't manage that (though perhaps it's better to be in Limbo than where Bette Kane is).

[mrstatham]

Despite the fact she's hospitalised, Bette's still in Batwoman, I get the feeling Williams III and Blackman are going to do something pretty big with her soon.

[icon_uk]

AFAIK Bette is Flamebird, Kate is Batwoman.

[mrstatham]

Hence why I said Bette's still 'in' Batwoman. As in Batwoman as a title. She's still part of the plots moving along and the like, isn't she?

[kenn_el]

Yup! Each issue has a Jacob/Bette scene. I hope you're right about doing something with her, BUT let's just say that Bette's time in the New U hasn't been something I'd wish on a character I liked. (Also, it's entirely possible that the Jacob/Bette scenes have been more about restoring Jacob's relevance to the series, though one does not negate the other.)

[icon_uk]

Ah, my apologies, I skipped over the "in", and thought a typo about Bette's ID had occurred. :)

[shadowpsykie]

as much as i didn't believe she was dead, when she flat lined it STILL scared the crap out of me.

the thing i feel is tthat they are going for the "rebuild and make her better" By tearing her down.

helping her recover AND training her could be a way to get Kate and Jacob back together.

[icon_uk]

They were hardly the first, Jason Todd could be said to have a similar origin as his father was a crook who worked for Two-Face, and Talia (Ra's daughter) had, pre Crisis, a long arc where she rebelled against her father and fought beside Batman.

[kenn_el]

I'm unclear as to the timing of the Jason Todd origins. The first I recall was the Re-Dick one with Killer Croc and the red hair. I also don't recall a father in his Artless Dodger re-do. Was his origin retconned before Steph was introduced?
I didn't include Talia because she's never been a part of the Bat Family in any real sense, and because her relationship with her father changes from writer to writer.

[runespoor]

Yeah, I think "awesome kid of evil parents" is a pretty legitimate traditional origin for characters nowadays, in or out the Batclan. Jason, Steph, Cass, Damian, (Jean-Paul?), Joe and Rose Wilson, arguably Mia, and I know I'm forgetting people.

[jaybee3]

I didn't mind so much as I always took that as shorthand that Cass was really THAT good. I got much more upset when Beechan had Tim able to take Cass down/fight her hand-to-hand to a stand still which even in previous Batman issues Bruce said was impossible. It felt like I was watching Cheetah (aka some one with god-like powers) getting beaten by Catwoman (aka someone who doesn't) all over again.

[mrstatham]

It's a bit different because Tim always had skills and was trained by Bruce himself - plus it's Beechen, so it's a load of shit anyway. With Steph/Cass, Steph was meant to have had enough skill to work on her own, but it was like they deliberely overemphasised Steph's flaws in being largely self-trained to big up Cass, which was taken to eleven when Steph suddenly became an idiot whilst employed as Robin.

So it's different.

[runespoor]

Steph was Robin for what, three, four issues? During these issues, she 1)saved Batman's life, 2)put a tracker on a superior fighter, 3)put the fear of the Bat into Penguin all over again. I didn't feel like they were making her suddenly an idiot.

Except for the fact that apparently she was never supposed to know Bruce's identity, and thus apparently never bothered to research the big "JASON TODD" memorial in the Cave, but I put that strictly on Editorial's shoulders.

[mrstatham]

She was Robin across more issues than the mere three she got in the actual Robin title, but those three were the only ones I bought at the time, and I hated them; Great art, but shitty writing, but then I don't like Willingham anyway. I get the feeling he didn't like her at all, and his crappy treatment of her was just linked to the atrocious treatment of Batman himself at the time.

I still think Steph got really dumbed down to make Cass look better.

[runespoor]

Willingham made it pretty clear he didn't care about even one character in his run. (Though I'll take the "when do I get to drive the Batmobile" scene because it was cute.)

I think Steph got angered-down and niced-up in her Batgirl series to make her look sanitized better more positive. Which is one of my two big peeves about that series.

[jlbarnett]

angry characters do little for me. I want superheroing to be their therapy basically.

[runespoor]

Anger at things that are wrong isn't an illness, or not one I'd want anyone to be cured of.

Admittedly I'm far more likely to latch onto the vocally angry character than onto another, all things being equal. *waves "Captain Haddock was a formative influence in my life as a young reader"* I find that for me, anger makes a character relatable, sympathetic, and funny.

[jlbarnett]

funny yes, and I can certainly relate to anger, but considering I stomp it down and move on it does little to make them sympathetic to me. I like my fictional characters to be noticably better than me.

[mrstatham]

I disagree, because I think Steph was positive anyway, and had less to be angry about. For all intents and purposes, her father was gone - and that was another classic DC continuity fuckup, from what I can see - and Black Mask was already dead. I would have preferred to see Steph team up with Selina in that Catwoman issue that tied into Blackest Night, mind you. Granted, I think everyone got niced up in her series - especially her mother - but I didn't see a problem with it, especially in terms of Steph wanting to put some of her past behind her. She's already the most positive person in the Batman Family besides maybe Nightwing, so I never took issue with that.

[big_daddy_d]

And the Snyder news via DCwomenKickingAss via IGN, namely DC aren't letting them being used anywhere, which as been interpreted as Steph being yanked from Smallville as well

[mrstatham]

I would like to be proved wrong when it comes to Steph being taken from Smallville and Barbara being put in, but DC management have already proven that they can and will be incredibly petty toward their fans, sometimes.

[big_daddy_d]

Unfortunately Didio confirmed it to be true..all because Barbara and Dick Grayson are "iconic"....

[weber_dubois22]

Oh, man, I'm so hooked on Spider-Men, I totally disregarded the pony tail and yelped "OMG, Miles!" When I looked at Stephanie in costume.