Cringeworthy Comicbook Moments: Raven Vs. the "Male Gaze"

[espanolbot]

Cringeworthy moments both accidental and on purpose.

Trigger warning for discussion of sexism, racism, and a rape reference

First up, a bit from the beginning of the Titans East storyline that introduced Adam Beechen to the book as well as the revelation that Cass Cain was drugged. Cassie Sandsmark, Tim Drake and Raven are talking, but for some reason Raven's ass has taken centre stage.


See, there's this thing in feminist theory called the Male Gaze, where art gives the illusion of it being seen through a hetrosexual man's eyes. Which kind of raises the issue of why, if the characters are in a the midst of a conversation about how the Titans aren't a family anymore, why the readers' eyes are meant to be drawn to Raven's ass.

Here is Plastic Man's series making a point about post-Identity Crisis DC in the most awkward way possible,





After Luke Cage is rushed to hospital after being blown up for his part in the Secret War, the hospital he's booked into it attacked by (non-Doom affiliated) cyborg suicide bombers. Jessica Jones shows up to find her bf missing, and due to this being the Marvel Universe, a nurse knows exactly what to blame!



With a truce settled between the Authority and Gen13, Grudge decides to try his luck with his pre-reboot girlfriend. Considering they were only just talked down from murdering the lot of them... this isn't the best course of action.





Jen tries to save the Marvel Universe,



All Star Batman and Black Canary, why you so... you?





A bit of anti-sex propaganda,



Oh my god, what's wrong with your faaaaacceeee?

Comments

[freezer]

That last panel isn't cringeworthy - it's awesome!

[whitesycamore]

Disclaimer: I'm not basing this claim off any of the artwork here in particular, and I'm not claiming that one company is superior to the other BUT:

Is it just me or does Marvel's art sink to the very depths of shittiness a little more often than DC's seems to?

[espanolbot]

Ehh... it does seem they're more willing to pay for crap art than DC does, because, as Greg Rucka basically said in his amazingly bitter interview recently, "they don't care so much about quality as they are that the work is done on time".
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/09/20/greg-rucka-on-leaving-marvel-and-dc-behind/

[greenmask]

They also take more chances with art styles though, maybe? More variety in general, gotta go wrong sometimes.

[eyz]

Hahaha :)
That She-Hulk page! XD

[mullon]

The Plastic Man one was deliberate.

[whitesycamore]

"Her tongue's a little bit sandy"

What. I've kissed smokers, but I've never encountered sandy-tongue syndrome before. Is this a real side-effect of Cuban cigars, or is Frank Miller allowing his poetic license to lead him off down a gritty back alley again?

[greenmask]

Maybe he's just mentioning both facts, together. Maybe it's just a thing she has.

[his_spiffynesss]

That would likely indicate Black Canary is suffering from dry mouth.

[flash_fan]

I'm gonna go ahead and assume Frank Miller has never been kissed and leave it at that.

[silverzeo]

I guess Identity Crisis was Mary's original start of fall from grace...

[jaybee3]

It wasn't. This was just a riff on the post-Identity Crisis DC. It was actually done post-Infinite Crisis and during the Final Crisis era IIRC (which makes it more ironic since it was originally Billy/Cap who Morrison wanted Libra to kill and not Martian Manhunter as a symbol of the end of goodness). Which means it was done post-destruction of Mary Marvel and all she represented. As a commentary on that I think it's actually pretty good - and pretty brave coming from someone who worked at DC at the time (where we're expected to believe that everyone is in favor of Didio's decisions - as in his remarks about the end of the Supes/Lois marriage which he said "everyone" at the company was in favor of).

[leoboiko]

When I first saw that Black Canary fanfic scene, I thought it was the worst possible “sexy” scene ever. Then came the new Catwoman…

[runespoor]

What I hate the most about the Canary/Batman scene is that I popcorn-loled at ASBAR before I ever heard of the Thrillkiller Elseworlds. ):

[damar148]

I've seen a lot of unwarranted Marvel superhero hate by it's civillians, but that black nurse really takes the shit cake.

[md84]

Jessica seems more offended by the nurse looking down on her and Luke because of their interracial relationship.

[theepicbeyond]

Just on the note of "male gaze" and that picture of Raven, it's a particularly sexualized image for a scene that doesn't involve sex. Look at the placement of her hand, it's very suggestive. Its made all the more blatant by the characters surrounding her. All the characters facial expressions look like they're leering at her. Cassy seems kind of judgement looking down at her. Robin seems to be liking what he's seeing as though to say "dat ass". Raven looks stoned. If you were to draw a line from each characters eyes to what they were looking at it would intersect with some part of Ravens body. Even the pictures of Superman and Lex Luther seem to be checking her out.

Either the artists is deliberately trying to titillate the reader, or it's all subconscious on the artists part. Coupled with the fact robin is saying "i want our family back" that pannel has a particularly icky feeling. IDK i could be defaulting back to my days in college over analyzing stuff.

[q99]

Yea. The companies, and DC especially, needs to give a briefing to their artists, "Don't do this. Sexy is fine, but don't pander in every shot."

[darkknightjrk]

I'm sorry, but the Grunge "honk" scene made me laugh. XD

As for the All-Star scene...I dunno, I always took that scene as taking subtext that's been in comics for years and making it text.

The guy I linked to actually did a whole series of articles about Miller's Batman work, which you can read here.

[chocochuy]

Wait, she writes erotic poetry yet complains that sex is everywhere? Methinks she is just trying to justify writing what she wants.

[jlbarnett]

I believe it's an "I learned it from watching you!" situation

[introverted_excavator]

Ok time to come out of lurking.

I am really, really uncomfortable with the Secret War scene. Because honestly? Even though interracial relationships are still a touchy subject in the Black community, I very much doubt that scene would've occurred like it did. To me it just reads like a white dude writing what he thinks a Black woman would say in that situation and making her come off as the stereotypical angry, bitter Black woman who goes after the poor delicate white lady :\\\\

It's just really unsettling.

[chocochuy]

The worst part besides attacking interracial love? Making the nurse say the Ebony Earl of Excellence, Luke Cage, deserves the pain he is into instead of been a little grateful/merciful for all the service he has done. Sometimes them citizens at the MU make facepalm all night.

[icon_uk]

Is the implication in the Captain Marvel scene that Sivana murdered Billy and then invited Dr Light over for... a paedophilic necrophilia session? I don't think I know a word to describe the level of unmitigatied "sick" that encapsulates

[whitesycamore]

Oh my goodness, that went completely over my head first time because I thought the problem with those pages was supposed to be the excessively tittified art.

...Everything stupid the reboot ever did may actually be justified, if only it also retconned THAT story out of existence with extreme prejudice.

[starwolf_oakley]

The new Power Man, Victor Alvarez, almost did something similar to Luke Cage that the nurse did to Jessica Jones. And Victor is Afro-Dominican.

IIRC, Victor was about to say "And married a..." to Luke, and gets interrupted. By a rather angry Luke, who pretty much dares Victor to finish what he was going to say. Don't remember the exact issue, sorry.

[jlbarnett]

in the last panel , she's shocked and disgusted. Wide eyes, curling of lips

[seisachtheia]

Where is that "No sex! No booze! See a shrink!" page from? I really only have the vaguest idea of what she's referring to, but oh man, it made me laugh.

[grazzt]

The She-Hulk series. She-Hulk was on trial, with the penalty being removal from the universe by retcon, so they brought in a lot of people, some of whom were dead at the time, to testify on her behalf (and against her).

[robinzegblu]

I honestly didn't know that Raven had a real name, I thought she was just "Raven."

I remember seeing the cover for the first issue of Geoff John's Teen Titans ans asking my friend "why is Starfire standing there like that?" only for him to reply "because she's on the team."

I had to clarify that I meant "why is she standing with her butt towards the audience?"

[q99]

I think the name came later.

I.e. she was born Raven but adopted a normal name at some point, I think when she got rezzed.

[blackruzsa]

The bit with the Authority, honestly? I'd probably do the same thing.

Otherwise, I'm just gonna back away from the rest. Not to say anything about the company, but a lot of DC comics have made me cringe not 'cause of the stories or the message sent, but the art being so BOOBSASSBARELEGSSKIN for girls in general. Boobs that big don't stand that way, guys, they just don't.