Date: 2012-10-18 05:51 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
It's...it's beautiful. :'D

Seriously, Lobdell seems to be channeling the All-Star take on Superman with this--the most powerful mortal on the planet involved in crazy sci-fi concepts, mixed in with a hint of good everyman complications. Combine that with the Rocafort art, and I'm just super-jazzed for this.
Edited Date: 2012-10-18 05:54 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-10-18 06:15 am (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
hmmm i'm excited for this

Date: 2012-10-18 06:18 am (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
:|

But does he need to be that strong? When is he ever going to need to be that strong?

Essentially his rouge gallery should simply be full of Magicians and Gods. Since that's what he's really going to break a sweat against. Lex Luthor? HA!

Brain beats brawn in only the most reasonable sense.

Date: 2012-10-18 06:18 am (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
Great Art though. Nice dialogue.

Date: 2012-10-18 06:30 am (UTC)
nate_abril96: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nate_abril96
I like Superman being ultra-powerful, but even I think that this may pushing it a little. I mean I'm all for Superman being able to bench-press a planet, but bench-pressing a planet for five days, with no exposure to yellow sunlight seems kind of like over-kill. At least I have something else to show my classmates that Superman is powerful, without having to resort to the reality punch (yes I know that was Superboy-Prime, but he's still technically a version of Superman).

Date: 2012-10-18 06:42 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
I could see that point--I would probably have it that our scientist friend slowly raised the weight over the course of the five days, and by that time, he was lifting close to the weight of the planet and exhausted.

Date: 2012-10-18 06:58 am (UTC)
nate_abril96: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nate_abril96
Yeah, I could see that too, but they explicitly state that he's been bench-pressing that amount of weight for five days straight.

Date: 2012-10-18 07:26 am (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
I don't see the difference, if you can bench-press a planet, you are already so ridiculously strong that it's impossible for people to adequately conceptualize. Anything beyond that is randomly adding zeros to the end. It's like the difference between having a trillion dollars and a quintillion dollars; it's not as if you're ever going to run out of money either way.

Date: 2012-10-18 07:42 am (UTC)
nate_abril96: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nate_abril96
Yeah, I guess that's also a good point, but it just bothers me knowing that he could last five days and only now has to recharge in the sun. I feel like they should have said that it was 3 days instead of 5, because it really hammers the scope of how powerful he truly is; without it being too exaggerated.

Date: 2012-10-20 03:22 am (UTC)
jlroberson: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jlroberson
Basically, Superman should never have his powers explained too deeply. Superman should be as strong as he needs to be, period.

Because he's fucking Superman.

Date: 2012-10-22 08:11 am (UTC)
nate_abril96: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nate_abril96
Then that creates some frustrating inconsistencies, because you have some moments where he can move planets out of orbit with little effort, but other moments where he has trouble lifting mountains; or my personal favorite line when he's fighting an enemy: "he's strong, probably stronger than me." Bro if you were able to lift a planet with relative ease the other day, I don't think a guy whose greatest feat was lifting a mountain with all his strength is going to be stronger than you. I don't know it's just my opinion.

Date: 2012-10-18 07:43 am (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
Luthor, at his best, should be able to best Superman despite the differences in physical strength, as, in my view, that Lex should be just as powerful in more mundane ways.

He should be able to design and buildings that CAN hurt his archenemy, or at least be able to move him into a position where he can be hurt. Lex should be able to manipulate governments, businesses and people to put a buffer in between him and Superman, so that Kal can't just fly through Lex's window and dump him in prison.

To me the best versions of Lex are,

- The DCAU version with Clancy Brown
- The animated All-Star Superman version (tweaked from the comicbook version to make him a wee bit more human and less melodramatically pathetic than the comicbook version)
- The Young Justice version, friendly, calm, very smart and willing to amputate a teenager's arm to get a constant source of DNA for cloning experiments.

Date: 2012-10-18 12:38 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I liked the Man of Steel era Luthor (Who the DCAU one is based on), the hyper successful, brilliant, but ruthless and morally bankrupt and corrupt billionaire businessman. Capable of genius on his own, but also more than prepared to hire external experts if that's what is required.

Also he was adept at politics and influence... in ways Superman never was. Superman obeys the law, Lex knows how to PLAY the law.

There's a nice bit in Morrison's JSA where a villain notes that he's doing something really dangerous more or less to impress Luthor, because favour from Luthor (or even better a PERSONAL favour from Luthor) is worth more than money in the bank. As heroes look up to Superman, villains look up to Luthor.

Superman can move worlds, Luthor knows how the world RUNS.

Date: 2012-10-18 01:57 pm (UTC)
arbre_rieur: (Default)
From: [personal profile] arbre_rieur
The concept of Luthor as the untouchable businessman, someone impossible to bring to justice, strikes me as way too cynical and dark for a Superman story. That goes doubly so these days, when one of the core appeals of superheroes -- that they're stories of Good triumphing over Evil -- has become more fogged up than ever in mainstream comics. Villains get away with atrocity after atrocity, and writers treat grim and gloom like hot commodities.

Part of what bugs me is how accepting of the situation Superman is usually portrayed as. When Luthor actively tries out some sinister plot, Superman reacts, but only then. All other times, it's like he just accepts that bringing Luthor down is beyond his ability. He sees Luthor brokering some deal on the news, and he expresses his frustration, when what he should be doing is vowing, "I'm going to expose that creep."

If someone tells Superman it's impossible to bring Luthor to justice, he doesn't say, "I know." He replies, "Nothing is impossible," then devotes himself to collecting proof of his arch-enemy's crimes, bringing all his super-abilities and his journalistic acumen to bear on the task, never resting, until he finally succeeds. And he *does* succeed because Superman stories are about Good triumphing over Evil. Not Good stalemating Evil.

Hope and optimism in our superhero comics. Is that really too much to ask?

Date: 2012-10-18 03:57 pm (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
But what use is anything Lex uses, other than kryptonite, to fight him with?

HE can bench press a planet, then he's certainly too fast and too strong to trap. Unless Lex is a wizard, all his traps and manipulations won't do much if Superman isn't dumbed down. Hell even the route of 'shine a bit of kryptonite at him' doesn't work when he sees you reach into your pocket while you were only thinking to.

DCAU Lex is the best Lex for me, and even then, him being any trouble to Supes was almost contrived. Especially when he became an outright villain, armour and all. Young Justice version is very very good aswell.

Date: 2012-10-18 08:32 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] silicondream
HE can bench press a planet, then he's certainly too fast and too strong to trap.

Unless his enemies and their devices are also on that level. Pre-Crisis Superman could throw a star halfway across the universe; it didn't stop Lex from creating things like the Galactic Golem that could physically overpower him. And there was Validus, Mongul, the Composite Superman, all those guys.

The problem isn't really giving Superman a suitable rogues' gallery; it's making sure he can play in the same universe with Batman and Aquaman without making them completely useless. But that's a problem with almost any version of Superman. Even the early Byrne version was a jillion times faster than an ordinary human; you'd never have a chance to pull out kryptonite on him either, plot-induced stupidity aside. I don't think it much matters to suspension of disbelief if you power Superman up still further.

Marvel's got Sentry, Quasar, Thor, Magneto, quite a few characters who can easily match Superman in accomplishing ridiculous feats, yet spend a lot of time hanging out with street-level allies. It seems to work story-wise...sometimes, anyway.

Date: 2012-10-18 09:03 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] kingofmadcows
By making Superman this strong, they're basically setting things up for plot holes and inconsistencies in the future. There is just no way that they can consistently portray Superman as being this power.

Date: 2012-10-19 12:58 am (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
I don't know, he basically was Pre-Crisis and they worked with those abilities from the 40s to 1985.

My preference would be for dialed-down Man of Steel level powers, though.

Date: 2012-10-18 01:09 pm (UTC)
leoboiko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
Dear Gods that was sexy.

I like this.

Date: 2012-10-19 02:25 am (UTC)
magusfool: (Default)
From: [personal profile] magusfool
I like this. I may actually read this. The early issues of DCnU Superman were boring me to tears. But I like this.

That said, I really think there is a trick to writing Supes that only a very small group of writers have ever really made work. The trick is that Superman is physically able to beat ANYTHING. You will never be on the edge of your seat thinking, "Man, Superman may not be strong enough to physically overcome this obstacle!" No. Even if a certain degree of suspense is created, as a reader, you will know what the outcome is. There are two solutions to this problem:

1.) The mental challenge. Superman is really smart. He will overcome any and all mental challenges just as he will physical ones. Even if he has to call in outside help, he will win. We as the readers are equally confident in this as we are his physical prowess. However, if the writer can construct a mental puzzle that the reader themselves are unable to unravel, it will create the necessary drama and suspense. Although, this is more a tactic for detective stories, and fits better from a tonal standpoint in Batman type stories.

2.) The moral challenge. Superman is perfectly moral. Much like the mental challenge, we readers know he will always do what's right. So, the trick to these stories is to construct a moral conundrum where the reader can't see a right answer. This creates a great deal of drama and suspense for the reader. And then, you have Superman find the real "right" answer where there seemed to be none. I believe this is the ideal approach for Superman, because it fits well within an action story framework. That said, this is really difficult to write. First you have to think of a situation that is morally ambiguous.... and then you need to convincingly present a hidden "right answer" that is both surprising and ethically satisfying. But, if you can pull it off, you have yourself one hell of a Superman story.

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