mistygeek: (Daffy Confess!)
[personal profile] mistygeek posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Fox Comics came out with some wacky things even in it's time. While I can't say "Chen Chang" from Mystery Men Comics comes close to topping the list it is...special.

Prepare yourselves for three tons of racism and random death traps.


I know little about Buddhism, but I don't think they do that whole cursing thing.

Real Women kill people with horses. Who needs super powers.



Date: 2012-11-16 05:08 am (UTC)
kamino_neko: Kamino Neko's evil icon. (Evil)
From: [personal profile] kamino_neko
The 'Chinese' looks more like Egyptian hieroglyphics...

And, man, I wonder if Sax Rohmer ever considered suing over all the Fu Manchu clones...

Date: 2012-11-16 10:53 am (UTC)
leoboiko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
Perhaps it isn't a horrible, meaningless representation of Chinese but rather a horrible, meaningless representation of Mongolian?

...Who am I kidding, as if they'd care.

Date: 2012-11-16 01:23 pm (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
I know people have tried to justify the protrayal of the Dothraki in Game of Thrones as "they're based on Mongolians", but they... kind of had more going on then JUST killing, raping and enslaving people. Not to say that they didn't do those things (and worse) but the Mongolians were actually a fair bit more progressive than some of their contemporary empires.

The arguement could be made that the Dothraki are based on generic Barbarian cultures from fantasy cultures, like the numerous ones wandering around in the Conan books... but the tv show's adaption to just bodge most of the nonwhite folk in with them just smacks a little of racism.

The thing is they're in a constructed universe, and although you can justify sexism (which GoT also has a big problem with) and racism to an extent, it doesn't necessary give you a free pass either unless you're trying to make a point about racism/sexism.

Compare GoT's fellow shows Boardwalk Empire (based in the US in the 1920s) or Deadwood (1880s frontier America) in their treatment of women and nonwhite people to Game of Thrones, for example.

Date: 2012-11-16 01:55 pm (UTC)
leoboiko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
The Dothraki were based on "the generic idea of nomadic warrior-riders", if I recall correctly; they don't look especially Mongolian to me, anymore than they look Hun or Turk. And while I have a few beefs with some issues (e.g. the fanfic-ey narration of Dænerys´ sexuality), I think Martin overall does a good job of highlighting all kinds of prejudice—sexism, racism, ethnocentrism, classism, ableism, you name it—as both widespread and awful, which I think is a great approach to "medieval" fantasy. (Certainly I find it much less problematic than Tolkien's, for example). One could argue that entire POV characters—Bran, Tyrion, Brienne, Dænerys, Davos, even [spoiler] after he loses his [spoiler]—are there to "make a point".

(Disclaimer; My perception is based on the books, not the TV series.)

Date: 2012-11-16 01:59 pm (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
I guess that's a main difference between the show and the books, they don't have a narrator and you have to deal with the information as is. Peter Dinklage is awesome as Tyrion, though in his case the depicted way of dealing with prejudice is "own it so it doesn't bother you anymore".

I don't know... I can appreciate what the author tried to do, but I generally prefer Discworld. Even though the upcoming Watch tv show (made as a direct sequel to the books) will probably not do that well, despite my wishes. :(

Date: 2012-11-16 02:13 pm (UTC)
leoboiko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
That is Tyrion's method alright (and Brienne's etc.), but the story up until now makes it abundantly clear that, in a prejudiced society, it'll only get you so far. I mean, Tyrion has repeatedly and brilliantly saved thousands of innocents only to get his reputation as a monster increasingly more horrible, for no other reason than, quote, “if he wasn't wicked, why would the gods make him look that way?” (Ok he [spoiler]ed his [spoiler], but it was understandable given the circumstances; and, even taking that into account, Tyrion's still one of the greatest heroes of the world, and all he got for it was a lost nose, a death sentence, a lifetime of humiliation, and riding pigs.)

Date: 2012-11-16 02:20 pm (UTC)
leoboiko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
By the way, one of the problems I have with the TV adaptation is that I find both Peter Dinklage and Gwendoline Christie to be just far too beautiful for their characters. It seems TV has a resistance to casting "ugly" people (by current standards) in major roles. They seem to have even refused to take Peter's nose, bowdlrezing the viscerally negative impression that Tyrion became doomed to cause.

Date: 2012-11-17 03:02 am (UTC)
skemono: I read dead racists (Default)
From: [personal profile] skemono
The Dothraki were based on "the generic idea of nomadic warrior-riders", if I recall correctly; they don't look especially Mongolian to me, anymore than they look Hun or Turk.

Quoth the author:
The Dothraki were actually fashioned as an amalgam of a number of steppe and plains cultures... Mongols and Huns, certainly, but also Alans, Sioux, Cheyenne, and various other Amerindian tribes... seasoned with a dash of pure fantasy. So any resemblance to Arabs or Turks is coincidental. Well, except to the extent that the Turks were also originally horsemen of the steppes, not unlike the Alans, Huns, and the rest.


In general, though, while I do draw inspiration from history, I try to avoid direct one-for-one transplants, whether of individuals or of entire cultures. Just as it not correct to say that Robert was Henry VIII or Edward IV, it would not be correct to say that the Dothraki are Mongols.

But personally, given that the books describe the Dothraki as having copper skin and almond-shaped eyes, I've always felt they were supposed to be Mongols.

Date: 2012-11-17 03:25 am (UTC)
leoboiko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
> copper skin and almond-shaped eyes

the "fantasy of mongols" may have been the original model, perhaps.

that description could fit an awful lot of people through the world, though.
Edited Date: 2012-11-17 03:26 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-11-17 03:33 am (UTC)
skemono: I read dead racists (Default)
From: [personal profile] skemono
Aye, but add "roving, horse-riding barbarian hordes" to the description and it gets narrowed down a bit. The Guaraní didn't even have horses!

...and now I desperately want a series with roving, alpaca-riding barbarian hordes.

Date: 2012-11-16 08:33 am (UTC)
beoweasel: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beoweasel
"The curse of Buddha upon them!"

The curse of Buddha!?

Buddhists don't work that way! NONE OF THIS WORKS THAT WAY!

Date: 2012-11-16 10:09 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Wouldn't wishing someone something which would prevent them attaining Nirvana count as a curse?

Date: 2012-11-16 01:31 pm (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
Bah, they should have just used the Buddha's Palm technique from Kung Fu Hustle.

Date: 2012-11-16 01:37 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
The curse of the Buddha certainly doesn't make any sense. Which is pity, because it's not as if Mongolian Buddhism lacked (lacks? the sources I've read all concern Mongolia in the early twentieth century) any number of thoroughly unpleasant gods/demons to invoke.

Date: 2012-11-16 01:29 pm (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
"Intercepted pass! Narrating what I'm doing to make the audience know I'm not trying to knife by girlfriend!"

I'd reccommend the Chinatown Deathcloud Peril if you want a pulpy book regarding the warlord period of early twentieth century China. It's about the creators of the Shadow and Doc Savage getting involved with a scheme that unintentionally reflects both their own work as well as the work of their peers (Lovecraft's death plays an important part in the plot, for example.)

Date: 2012-11-16 10:29 pm (UTC)
cypherfdp: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cypherfdp
So, what is Chen Chang supposed to be? Chinese? Mongolian? Manchurian? Generic Oriental?

Date: 2012-11-16 10:53 pm (UTC)
gamerguy: (Default)
From: [personal profile] gamerguy
The last one; the generic, monolithic, decadent Yellow Peril.

Date: 2012-11-17 08:17 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] silicondream

And that's one hell of a dum-dum bullet.

Date: 2012-11-17 03:15 pm (UTC)
blackruzsa: (Default)
From: [personal profile] blackruzsa
I'm not even


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