[personal profile] hyperactivator posting in [community profile] scans_daily


This deviant art comic says my point of view perfectly.

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I'm with you Princess. Why do people hold the 1939 musical as the be all end all of Oz? Which if your going to do then Oz is just a dream and doesn't even exist and everything happened in a farm girl's head! And the constant parroting of the darker interpritations of that movie that are popular on the internet as if they were more real than the what is actually depicted.

Then there's the people who think that Wicked is somehow less fanfiction than it is and are resentful of this movie for being made in the first place.

Listen the Musical is an awesome classic. Wicked is awesome and well on it's way to being a classic. But Oz is so much more.

And it's public domain. Oz The Great and Powerful seems to be bringing a lot of the books to the
big screen for the first time and telling the untold tale of a major and popular character.

Please reserve judgment until it comes out. I want this to do well so we might get actual adaptations of the books.

It just seems like there is a unfair amount of anger directed at what seems like a perfectly innocent film. This isn't taking away from the witches or Dorathy. This is just Oscar's story.

Why is that wrong?

So please reserve judgment until it comes out. If it's terrible then it's terrible but don't see things that are not there.

Or I'll summon the Winged Monkeys.


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Date: 2012-11-17 10:48 pm (UTC)
turtlefu: (Default)
From: [personal profile] turtlefu
The comic is really, really tiny, and would you mind crediting the original DeviantArt artist? Sometimes artists get mad if you don't credit them (rightfully so).

Second of all, I don't think saying "Don't judge until you've seen it" is really fair at all. Nobody has said "This movie is terrible!" but there does appear to be problematic things about the movie, and pointing out problematic things is sort of the whole point of this community (in a way).

Date: 2012-11-18 01:57 pm (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
"Don't make absolute judgements until you've seen it"

That's a fair point. And some people have been.

Date: 2012-11-17 10:57 pm (UTC)
drexer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] drexer
a) You seem to have linked to the thumbnail from the relevant deviantart piece, and my eyes cannot possibly understand what is written there.

b) I hate when I am asked to "reserve judgment until it comes out" about something.

The trailer was put out onto the world to try and get viewers to see the movie, as such I think the very least that a viewer should expect of himself would be to watch the trailer and form their own opinions. Some will like it, some will love it, some will see nothing too special about it and some will only be interested by the shiny bits, some won't like it because they remember other related works of fiction and some won't like it because they see disturbing subtext within the trailer even if they're not that knowledgeable about all the true or fanfictioned cannon of the story(my personal case).

But the trailer was launched into the world and once its out here then it will be subjected by necessity to criticism, and be it good or bad it is never a good answer to just tell the critics to shut up and wait for the film specially if they've been offered a trailer whose principle is just that: to get people talking. If having to suffer under the possibilities of bad criticism was too horrible, then it should have never been on youtube.

My two cents.

PS: Damn, it's quite obvious I've been watching a lot of Retsupurae lately, isn't it?

Date: 2012-11-18 02:00 pm (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
Disturbing Subtext?

Date: 2012-11-18 05:35 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Hear hear.

Date: 2012-11-17 11:27 pm (UTC)
brooms: (bridget)
From: [personal profile] brooms
i googled "nitwits in oz" -

http://rocketdave.deviantart.com/art/Nitwits-in-Oz-281240717
Edited Date: 2012-11-17 11:28 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-11-18 12:45 am (UTC)
auggie18: (Default)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
Wow, did that comic not get me on the author's side. Instead of being all "the Oz books are cool! They create a beautiful and complex world! You should read them!" it comes off "You're only aware of the Oz adaptations with the most exposure? Morons!"


Or Nitwits, rather. Charming. Of course, in a few years the things the "Nitwits" are talking about could be expanded to include this new Oz movie.

Also, for something that's not really comic related, we sure are talkIng about the new Oz movie a lot.

Date: 2012-11-18 01:02 am (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
I'm just wary of all this "We need a great MAN" statements in the trailer. It seems a bit suspect for one of the few iconic stories in filmmaking where the protagonist is female and her journey doesn't include getting a boyfriend. Hell, "Wizard of Oz" is one of the few great classic movies to pass the Bechdel test. "Wicked" didn't shift the focus around to a man and make him out to be so desperately important...this looks like it will.

Plus: come on, fellers. I afore James James Franco's...unholy! ACTING. TALENT!!! as much as the next cinema goer, but is anyone seriously going to believe he grows into being Frank Morgan? Why not someone with a similarly pudgy figure and ability to do a slightly silly voice - like Jonah Hill or Seth Rogen?

(And don't tell me either of those guys couldn't be a leading man because marketing. Look at "Kung Fu Panda", the "Shrek" series, the original character designs for Flynn in "Tangled" and this new "Wreck-It Ralph" film...and tell me the 'Chubby Underdog/Outsider/Misfit' hero type isn't on the up-and-up.)

Date: 2012-11-18 02:20 am (UTC)
halloweenjack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] halloweenjack
is anyone seriously going to believe he grows into being Frank Morgan?

Why would they need to?

Date: 2012-11-18 05:11 am (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Right One 2)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Well if you're going to do a prequel on Wizard of Oz, it's probably going to be about either the Witches or the Wizard at this point.

Wicked has pretty much set the standard for stories about Glinda and the Wicked Witch so any other story about them would be considered inferior by comparison.

So making it about the Wizard seems like the next logical choice by process of elimination. *shrugs*
Edited Date: 2012-11-18 05:11 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-11-18 02:04 pm (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
"(And don't tell me either of those guys couldn't be a leading man because marketing. Look at "Kung Fu Panda", the "Shrek" series, the original character designs for Flynn in "Tangled" and this new "Wreck-It Ralph" film...and tell me the 'Chubby Underdog/Outsider/Misfit' hero type isn't on the up-and-up.)"

... I love how you only listed animated characters as examples.

Anyway, this isn't a prequel to the *film* its a more closely adapted version of the book, James Franco doesn't need to be anything like Frank Morgan. Plus people get pudgier and sometimes more eccentric with age.

Date: 2012-11-18 02:28 am (UTC)
halloweenjack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] halloweenjack
Even as a librarian who likes to encourage people to explore the original source material, I found the comic strip to be pedantic and rather scolding in its tone.

Date: 2012-11-18 03:49 am (UTC)
suzene: (Default)
From: [personal profile] suzene
Ignore this fancomic.

Go read Eric Shanower's Adventures In Oz (book 1, book 2), which is a superior fancomic and does a much better job of selling why fresh interpretations of the Oz books are sometimes an awesome thing.

Date: 2012-11-18 10:23 pm (UTC)
cleome45: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
Shanower is a treasure, no matter what he draws. :)

Date: 2012-11-19 12:28 am (UTC)
jaybee3: Nguyen Lil Cass (Default)
From: [personal profile] jaybee3
Shanower's illustrations of the characters are now the ones I imagine when reading the books (over O'Neil's even). I wish some of his newer Oz stories, such as Shanower's graphic novels or Paradox in Oz, would be adapted or animated.

Date: 2012-11-19 12:35 am (UTC)
suzene: (Default)
From: [personal profile] suzene
Shanower's illustrations of the characters are now the ones I imagine when reading the books (over O'Neil's even).

Now there's high praise (and well-deserved!).

Sadly, the output of Shanower that I most adore are based on works in the public domain, which means we're probably never going to see other adaptations of them.

I sound really cranky and I apologize in advance

Date: 2012-11-18 04:32 am (UTC)
mesmiranda: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mesmiranda
The trailer looks exactly to me like James Franco's character is the troubled yet cute hero who Learns About Himself and Saves The Day through the Power of Friendship And Magical Twinkly Creatures. And sure, it could turn out to be subversive and dark and have a downer ending, but it's a live-action Disney film. I'm not really holding my breath on that one.

And why can't we adapt some of those books about Dorothy's further adventures? What about a film translation of Wicked? This film looks like a tired rehash of Alice in Wonderland, which was a tired rehash of Tim Burton's greatest hits, and I am really tired of seeing Generic White Male Protagonist get his movie greenlit ahead of female and POC leads. Black Widow doesn't need her own movie when you can make Ant-Man and Guardians of the Galaxy, right?
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
I was under the impression that Marvel was considering a spinoff/origin film for Black Widow?
mesmiranda: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mesmiranda
Ehhh. There's been a lot of talk about an origin film in the news and interviews, but with all the hype of Iron Man 3 and Thor 2 and Captain America 2 and so on it's fading pretty quickly into the background. Maybe I'm being too cynical, and it'll actually happen before the next Avengers movie, but...
auggie18: (Default)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
And why can't we adapt some of those books about Dorothy's further adventures?

There actually was an attempt to bring some of Dorothy's further adventures in Oz to the silver screen with an unofficial sequel in the 80s. Return to Oz. It's very loosely based on the second and third Oz books, and if well worth a look if you're a fan. It's a bit dark, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_to_Oz
mesmiranda: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mesmiranda
Netflix is a no-go for me, so I'll check out my local video store for this. Thank you! ;)
ladytimedramon: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ladytimedramon
"Loosely based" is an understatement.

They try to resolve the musical with the 2nd and 3rd books. Tip/Ozma barely shows until the end.

If you've read the books, you might find yourself wanting to throw one at the screen when watching Return to Oz.

And yes, I've read all of Baum's books, plus at least half of Thompson's books.
auggie18: (Default)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
I've actually never seen Return to Oz. I just know a few people who are big fans of the books who really like that movie.

*shrugs*
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
Ant Man and Guardians of the Galaxy sound a lot more interesting than Black Widow to be honest. they just have opening for very different directions in the Marvel Universe.

Black Widow was amazing in the Avenegrs, and maybe her time will come, but at the moment, it'd only be another spy action film - which we have a lot of.

____

It'd be a little confusing and illogical to go off on adapting Dorothy's further adventures, probably best to start a bit closer to... y'know, the 'start' - the Wizard is a brilliant place to kick off a franchise, gender politics aside.
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
We don't really have much in the way of superhero spy action. You can cite Bourne and James Bond if you like, but Bond has basically only just started introducing the more fantastic elements back in.

The fact of the matter is that they aren't putting out female led films; Given the reaction to Black Widow in the Avengers - and the crowd that was moaning about Johansson just being some eye candy was clearly drowned out by the crowd thinking she was one of the best things about it - and you'd think a solo movie was an easy sell.

But a female-led action-spy superhero movie? We DON'T have a lot of that.
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
But a female-led action-spy superhero movie? We DON'T have a lot of that.
Well there was Salt. And you'd think that the fact it was successful would give a hint to producers.
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
To be fair, one movie doesn't really equal a 'lot' of. There was also Haywire, but that was sold more on the back of Fassy and it's ensemble cast than Gina Carano, from what I recall.
auggie18: (Default)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
...Charlie's Angels? Those were a few years ago now, though and had their own set of problems.

I always forget what stuff is recent. Last week I thought Alias was still on.

Alias, Dark Angel, the new Bionic Woman, the new Charlie's Angels, She-Spies, Kim Possible, Nikita, Totally Spies, Chuck (Sort of.) Huh, there's been a fair number of female spy shows. Though some of them were comedy/cartoons.

None now, though.

Except Nikita.
cyberghostface: (Right One 2)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
It'd be a little confusing and illogical to go off on adapting Dorothy's further adventures, probably best to start a bit closer to... y'know, the 'start' - the Wizard is a brilliant place to kick off a franchise, gender politics aside.

That's how I feel as well.

Although I really don't think they should try "remaking" Wizard of Oz--it would be like my feelings towards the Amazing Spider-Man film x 10. The original film is always going to be the elephant in the room, so A.) you're going to end up copying what happened in the original film and coming off as inferior in the process or B.) you're going to end up changing it to differentiate your version and just make it more of a mess.
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
Hehe, feels a little pessimistic of you, I mean, in ten years or so, there's going to be a generation of kids who will feel fairly disassociated with the original film, sure, they'll know it existed, and many will like it - but a remake and proper adaption of the books could be useful in that respect.
cyberghostface: (Right One 2)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Maybe but the original's been around for close to 75 years now and it's still big enough that WB is going to re-release it in 3D and milk it some more.

Not saying it will never happen but whoever tries needs to have some pretty big brass balls.
Edited Date: 2012-11-19 06:23 pm (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
Hmmm, I don't think this'll be the one, but it could surprise us.

But I think there's a certain 'responsibility' to the source material, since it's public domain, the original *needs* to be championed in one way or another (sometimes that means rehashes though).

Date: 2012-11-18 05:02 am (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Right One 2)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Kind of agree with the others about the comic being pedantic. And I actually read the first Oz novel and I still feel that the story told in the film is better.

And if you've seen the trailers for the new Oz movie it's pretty clear that they're borrowing from the film over the book. I mean compare how they're showing the Witch in this film as opposed to how the Witch was described in Baum's original text:



Ask anyone who the Wicked Witch of the West is, they'll point to Margaret Hamilton.

Date: 2012-11-18 10:25 pm (UTC)
cleome45: (lightning1)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
She's wearing Hammer pants! So many heretofore inexplicable things suddenly make sense to me! :p

Date: 2012-11-18 09:31 am (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
Wow, haven't had a reaction to my reaction strips in a long time.

And I admit that although I have a passing knowledge the original Oz books (my childhood was more Narnia, Worst Witch and later Pratchett focused), I was going off of the overall impression I got from the franchise (read: franchise, not just the original books), regarding how utterly lazy the inhabitants of Oz are.

The Oz books are interesting from what I know of them (there not actually being a concept of death there, with even the Tin Woodman's severed bodyparts still being alive and stitched together into a second person, for example), I just have issue with the lack of agency the Oz...ians have when it comes to the adaptions.

Although it IS true that there are many characters who are from Oz that do stuff while Dorothy isn't there, the case seems to be that they kind of require Gale to be there to get the plot moving more often than not. This is compared to the book Wicked (noncanon, I know) which does have someone from Oz trying to drive the plot, but she's interpreted as being the BAD GUY for doing so.

Their tendency to cave to external and internal dictatorships is one consistant thing in the adaptions (and source material from what I've seen), so my point still stands.

Date: 2012-11-19 12:25 am (UTC)
jaybee3: Nguyen Lil Cass (Default)
From: [personal profile] jaybee3
I don't there's much incentive for anyone in Oz to do anything. Once past the second book when Ozma (backed up by Glinda) take over Oz becomes basically a benevolent despotism. Glinda's magical book shows everything that happens in Oz once it happens and Ozma's magical belt and mirror (later shared with Dorothy) basically can spy on anyone in the realm. There's no death, no real power for any of the "local" monarchs (the Tin Woodman is "Emperor" of the Winkies in name only), and magic is outlawed for everyone but Ozma, Glinda and the Wizard.

Date: 2012-11-18 02:11 pm (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
Well... this *is* what happens with public domain products.

Date: 2012-11-18 02:31 pm (UTC)
jeyl: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jeyl
"This is just Oscar's story. Why is that wrong?"

Missing the bigger issue. In an entertainment industry that is sorely (Nick Furry "HILARIOUSLY") lacking female protagonists, taking a well known female driven series and turning it into another "Male hero must be strong to overcome obstacles!" and making all the female character so dependent on his help is why I'm not excited about this film in the slightest.

Date: 2012-11-18 10:26 pm (UTC)
cleome45: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cleome45
Yeah.

Context matters. :/

Date: 2012-11-18 10:40 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Right One 2)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
If this had been a remake or even a sequel that replaced Dorothy, I'd agree, but as I said earlier the only real options for an Oz prequel (realistically speaking) is either about the Witches or the Wizard coming to Oz and Wicked did the former.

Already I consider Elphaba's story to be the definitive Oz prequel that this has to live up to, so if they did an unrelated film from the Wicked Witch's POV it would never get anywhere.

Date: 2012-11-19 12:03 am (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
why did they have to do a prequel again? Why not a remake? Why not a sequel?

Date: 2012-11-19 12:12 am (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Right One 2)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
I don't know, I can only guess. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that the general public couldn't care less about most of Baum's stories after the first nowadays. Ask a random stranger who Zeb Hugson or John Dough is, they're likely to look at you funny. Producers are comfortable with familiarity and people are familiar with the world from the film.

And maybe I'm giving Hollywood producers too much credit but the first film is considered such a classic that trying to redo it would be considered blasphemy.

Plus prequels/origin stories are hot right now.

Date: 2012-11-19 12:23 am (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
That's going a bit far to justify the choices they made to make it about a male character, IMHO.

Date: 2012-11-19 01:10 am (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Right One 2)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
I'm not trying to justify anything; I just think it's a realistic assessment of the producers' mindset and how the franchise is viewed in general.

I don't really care about this movie either way; it looks a bit like a style-over-substance CGI-fest. And I would prefer an adaptation of Wicked (the novel, but they'd probably do it on the musical) over this. But I don't making a movie about the backstory of the actual Wizard of Oz is a bad thing in and out of itself.

Date: 2012-11-19 02:01 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Perhaps because the Wizard is the least fleshed out of the humans in Oz (all two of them) in the original story (as seen in the movie, which is where most people's knowledge of such things comes from, if not the books) and so can offer the best contrast to the original film.

We know he's a sham, a well-meaning charlatan, but we know very little about his origins and what we do know might well not be entirely true. How DOES someone with no actual magic powers achieve a position of power through bluff, some parlour tricks and the gift of the gab? What sort of a life did he have? What sort of live CAN you have when you can never be yourself and have to be "The Great and Powerful Oz" on, essentially, an alien planet ALL the time? He achieved peace of sorts, but how?

We know how Dorothy reacted to being in a world where magic operated, but we never saw how the Wizard coped (or didn't) when HE first arrived. The other characters are native Oz-ians and so don't have quite an "everyman" POV of the place, only Dorothy and the Wizard do, and we only ever really saw Dorothy.

Would I rather have "Wicked: The Movie" with it's focus on Elphaba and Glinda, some kickass diva numbers and a manipulative and at best morally ambiguous Wizard who does some horrible things to justify his ends and pays a price in the end? Hell yes, (get Idina and Kristin in front of the cameras NOW dammit), but I don't really have a problem pre se with them picking the Wizard of Oz, the other human being from the most famous movie, to be a focus character.

Date: 2012-11-20 12:14 am (UTC)
auggie18: (Default)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
Have you seen this? I feel like it would be up your alley:

http://vimeo.com/19733014

Date: 2012-11-20 12:34 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I have indeed and it's great! :) I actually (more or less by accident) went to see Wicked on the opening night of it's San Francisco trial run before it ever went to Broadway, so feel a certain... possessiveness about it! ;D

Meanwhile, spinning in his grave...

Date: 2012-11-19 09:39 pm (UTC)
fakeasain56: (Default)
From: [personal profile] fakeasain56
Baum weeps over the fact that the series he despised writing but was forced too write continues to make money.

He is joined by Conan Arthur Doyle. And Chris Robins. And everyone else who despises their work that eventually became popular. But especially Doyle. Because of Sherlock. And Elementary. And every other show ever produced.

Re: Meanwhile, spinning in his grave...

Date: 2012-11-20 12:37 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
As John Laurie used to say about his performance as Private Frazer in "Dad's Army" - "I've played Hamlet, I've played Richard III, but I'll be remembered for this piece of shit."

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scans_daily: (Default)
Scans Daily
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