jlroberson: (pic#378621)
[personal profile] jlroberson posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Well, for one thing, he can't blink. But there's also this, courtesy of Milligan & Fegredo's FACE.

Interesting fact: getting your face cut off can leave you open to lots of infections. Who knew?

(c)Peter Milligan/Duncan Fegredo.

Date: 2012-12-10 10:16 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] kingofmadcows
I'm pretty sure that the Joker is immune to diseases due to his condition.

As for whether or not he can blink, that depends on whether or not the muscles were removed.

Date: 2012-12-10 03:20 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
He does say that he can't blink in the #13 back-up with Harley, and that he had to basically put eye-drips on his eyes constantly. Of course, he was also fucking with her by threatening to cut her face off at the time, so he could have been exaggerating.

Date: 2012-12-10 10:19 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Robin Joker Another day....)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
The Joker's skin (and his face) is already completely non-standard following his acid bath dip. It bleached his skin chalk white permanently and made his lips bright red, plus gave him the rictus grin, and turned his hair green. After that, wondering how it still works is probably a waste of effort.

Date: 2012-12-10 10:41 am (UTC)
robinzegblu: A robot with tank treads instead of legs. (Default)
From: [personal profile] robinzegblu
According to the crazy German doctor from the movie, the nerves were completely severed. (Hence the not being able to move his face, I guess).

Date: 2012-12-10 11:18 am (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
In before someone says "But What About Two-Faaaaceee?" again.

This is an entirely irrelevant question because, writing-wise, Two-Face's scars are an integral element to the character and asking why he's not infected, etc., just leads to asking why he doesn't get corrective surgery, blah blah blah. We've seen that done several times, and not always handled the best way possible. Essentially, asking that question means undoing Two-Face.

The Joker having a detachable face, however, is NOT integral to the character. If anything is integral to the character, it's that he has white skin, green hair, tells jokes, and sometimes those jokes involve killing people. The logical thread that leads from the question "Shouldn't the Joker be suffering from massive infections?" just leads to the Joker as we know and love him, and only undoes Snyder's version.

And the sooner the next writer makes this shoddy interpretation of the character go away for good, the better, is what I say.

Date: 2012-12-10 11:31 am (UTC)
arbre_rieur: (Default)
From: [personal profile] arbre_rieur
"The Joker having a detachable face, however, is NOT integral to the character."

But is it integral to this one particular story? That's the important question. Not every story should be some grand mission statement designed to delineate the platonic ideal of a character.

Date: 2012-12-10 11:33 am (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
I'm not entirely sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. If you're saying that the detachable face is an unnecessary attempt at again trying to reach that "Platonic ideal" of the Joker (see also: lipless Joker of "Batman R.I.P.") as opposed to just telling a good Joker story, then I concur.
Edited Date: 2012-12-10 11:47 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-12-10 12:17 pm (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
He's saying that the Joker does not always have to conform to some Platonic ideal. Sometimes the Joker wears overalls or a t-shirt instead of a suit. Sometimes he's melancholy instead of gleeful. Sometimes he cuts his face off. Just because he has his face cut off for this story arc does not mean he will have his face cut off forever. He is a drawing; they can cut his face up and stitch it back together as many times as they like.

Date: 2012-12-10 12:33 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
And, in all likelihood, in so doing render this story even less meaningful.

The Joker removing his face was supposed (I have to assume) to be indicative of something, what neither the Dollmaker story, nor this one, have done was explain WHAT it was supposed to be indicative of, and if it's reversed it'll just make it more meaningless.

No matter the iteration, the Joker always had an ego the size of a planet and boundless vanity about his unique appearance. To go against that, you need a really compelling reason to do so (and "Because he's crazy" just doesn't cut it) and as yet I haven't seen even the hint of one.

Date: 2012-12-10 12:50 pm (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
I've posted this once before but I'm reading the Joker's de/re-facing, combined with the revisiting of his classic crimes, as a form of self-parody. For example, he returns to his old "poison the reservoir" gag, but cuts the whole thing short and blows up the pipeline himself, because that's what's bound to happen anyway. He's turning his old plots into jokes at his own expense. He had his face cut off so that he could strap it back on and play the part of the Joker.

Date: 2012-12-10 01:43 pm (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
And if they'd played it that way - and if the story were an Elseworlds and/or alternate future story - I'd be more forgiving. As it is, I have to concur with icon that the motivation they seem to be going with is "He's crazy! We don't have to explain it!".
Edited Date: 2012-12-10 01:45 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-12-10 01:52 pm (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
No, I'm describing the Death of the Family arc as it is now, as I understand it. From my reading, this is in fact how they are playing it.

Also, you are talking about a company where Flash ran back in time and tripped and hit a Time Wall or something, and now Amanda Waller is skinny, Harley Quinn is a juggalette, and Alan Scott is gay. How on earth would making something an elseworlds/alternate universe have any meaningful difference whatsoever?

Date: 2012-12-10 01:56 pm (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
It wouldn't be on the 'permanent record', you know? It'd be something that happened to an alternate-universe Joker rather than the one I know and love. Even if they go back and run nothing but stories with a Joker who looks more like, y'know, the Joker, it'd still be there in my memory.

And - just in case you go that route - please don't say "You don't have to read it". I'm not reading it, nor spending my money on it, but that doesn't stop it from annoying me.

Date: 2012-12-10 02:03 pm (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
The new-52 is literally an alternate universe to the DC universe before it, and that was an alternate universe to DC before infinite crisis on infinite earths or whatever. Currently, Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown never existed and Tim Drake was never Robin! There is no permanent record, this is an illusion. If you meet the Joker on the road, kill him!

Date: 2012-12-10 02:37 pm (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
I appreciate the effort, but at the end of the day you're just trying to make me see it your way. I can't, because I see it my way.

Date: 2012-12-10 05:29 pm (UTC)
pyrrhocorax: It is XS! She is running! (XS)
From: [personal profile] pyrrhocorax
It seems such a bizarre counterpoint to the "moar iconic!" trend DC has going on. I mean, what's more iconically DC than the white faced, green haired, always laughing Joker?

Date: 2012-12-10 02:00 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
And as I may have mentioned in reply (or not) that strikes me as being entirely the WRONG thing to do in the first post DCnU Batman/Joker confrontation.

If this is supposed to be a fresh start and accessible to new readers (As the DCnU was intended to be), then basing it all around old, pre-DCnU, stories seems self defeating.

And the Joker basing an entire campaign about repeating old jokes also seems off.

Date: 2012-12-10 02:08 pm (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
Probably, but the new-52 approach to the Bat-line was to pretend nothing had changed to begin with, because it was already selling well. The Joker-Batman dynamic was unchanged by the reboot, so why not continue from where they left off.

Date: 2012-12-10 01:41 pm (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
Exactly. There's a difference between sticking to the same ideal over and over again, and keeping character consistency.

This story's Marvel equivalent would be a grand multi-title crossover event with the Fantastic Four and related books in which Doctor Doom went nude, all the time, for no stated reason whatsoever.

Date: 2012-12-10 02:03 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] md84
Nah, if Doom did go nude, it would be for some plan that revolves around tormenting Reed Richards. Just like most of his plans that don't revolve around becoming a god (and some of those that do).

What would be freakier? Doom nude with his mask on or off?

Date: 2012-12-10 05:29 pm (UTC)
ext_3679: (Default)
From: [identity profile] fiddlingfrog.livejournal.com
Wasn't there a story where a naked and armorless Doom had to kill a lion and then he made a mask from it's skin?

Date: 2012-12-10 09:36 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
Yeah, one of the rare times we see Doom without his armor and it turns out he's still a badass- although my personal favorite was when he returned to rescue/defeat Reed!Doom.

Date: 2012-12-10 10:06 pm (UTC)
beoweasel: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beoweasel
I say this Joker isn't the Joker at all, but somebody the Joker took and made to be like him, all in a massive and intricate plan to fuck with the Bat Family.

Date: 2012-12-10 10:44 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I've been saying that about nearly every Joker story since "A Death in the Family" (Dini stories excepted)

Date: 2012-12-10 03:06 pm (UTC)
crinos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crinos
You know, after the villainess who had a literal hole in her head, and that arc a while ago of a gang of villains who had all been mutilated by Batman and wanted revenge (Which included a guy who had a batarang jammed in his brain and three guys who were somehow melted together into one.) I think we can just assume the Batman writers have no idea how the human body works.

Date: 2012-12-10 03:46 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] md84
Or they just don't care. I doubt they are actually ignorant enough to believe that people really can be melted together that way. And the person with a hole in her head and the guy with a batarang in his brain aren't that unrealistic. There was a guy in real life who had a steel bar shoved through his brain and he survived, though his emotions were screwed up.

Date: 2012-12-10 03:51 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Again, it's comic book science. This is a world where people survive dunks in tubs full of acid and other chemicals and come out on the other end with bleached skin and green hair. At that point, logic and medical science goes the fuck out the window. To have a dig at Joker's face being peeled off means we should be having a dig at Joker, full stop. To say nothing of Two Face, Clayface (all of them), Mister Freeze and numerous others.

Date: 2012-12-10 04:13 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] md84
^This. So much. It's more shocking when superhero comicbooks actually follow reality.

Date: 2012-12-10 10:59 pm (UTC)
crinos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crinos
And the person with a hole in her head and the guy with a batarang in his brain aren't that unrealistic.

Um, yes it is. At least the hole in the head one is.

Forgiving the fact that the character can still think and function this way. (because she has a mutated brain or whatever), the fact is that having two 1 foot diameter holes in her skull means that her skulls structural integrity completely destroyed.

You know how if you make a hole in glass, it makes the glass incredibly fragile and easy to break? That's pretty much how it works with any solid structure, if you take a big chunk out of it, its pretty much ruined. Her skull would have collapsed within hours of her being shot.

Now I really don't mind Absence, I think its an interesting concept, but lets not even pretend that she makes any sense in a biological sense. Even by comic book standards she's kind of pushing it.

Date: 2012-12-11 01:42 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] md84
Okay I'll admit that Absence really wouldn't work. I'm just saying it's not totally unrealistic that a person can survive having a significant chunk of their brain removed via having something shoved through their skull.

Date: 2012-12-11 03:46 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: 12 Apostles rocks, text "Rock On" (12 Apostles)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
+1. The part where her brain is only around the edges of the inside of her skull is a real medical condition. Having a hole in your skull so big that half of your skull is gone is not. Also, infection!

Date: 2012-12-10 07:45 pm (UTC)
selke: (Default)
From: [personal profile] selke
"A wizard did it."

Date: 2012-12-11 03:36 am (UTC)
katzedecimal: the serial killer from Hatoful Boyfriend (hohoho)
From: [personal profile] katzedecimal
Have an Internet Flashback award.

Date: 2012-12-10 10:47 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] whoha

Say's it all for me. (please try to refrain from angry and defensive comments)

Date: 2012-12-11 10:12 am (UTC)
eyz: (Default)
From: [personal profile] eyz
I'm pretty at this point, you should just go:
"Why the New 52 Makes No Sense. Period"
with the title...

that's all!

Date: 2012-12-11 05:58 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Except it has fuck-all to do with the New 52 and more to do with comic books blatantly ignoring rules of medicine and health and whatever constantly.

Date: 2012-12-12 08:29 am (UTC)
eyz: (Default)
From: [personal profile] eyz
No need to go all F-word on me! :/
And yes, I'd actually say: The New 52 has been pretty "good" at igonring any rules, good sense or manners of any kinds, just for the sake of being more and more grittier...

Date: 2012-12-12 12:15 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Except the Joker face-peel thing could and probably would have happened even without the reboot anyway; This has nothing at all to do with the New 52. Again, if people are complaining about Joker's face-peel, I think they need to stop reading superhero comics at all, because near enough every superhero and villain with a vaguely scientific/health based origin actively defies medical science. To imply that this is something new that started with the New 52 is delusional and a complete falsehood.

Date: 2012-12-13 01:17 am (UTC)
chieflewal: (Default)
From: [personal profile] chieflewal
How is the Joker even still relevant? He's NOT interesting, and he certainly has no place being main villain material for a guy that can put a stomping to gods. What about The Monk? Remember him? The vampire? At least he was a vampire.


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