Justice League #15

[flint_marko]

Billy tries going after Freddy when he gets attacked.

Comments

[shadowpsykie]

i know i am probably in the minority, but i kinda like this, and i like where it is going...

i mean a kid like Billy, who has been teased and bullied, finally becomes an adult, even begins to indulge in the nw power he has, but forgets already WHY he didn't like adults to begin with. (and honestly that is pretty easy to do) Billy likes the fact that no one can bully him or treat him like a kid anymore... but he's already becoming that which he hated.

you know what i will find interesting? if Billy begins to get beaten up by Black Adam and some how the Vasquezes are informed (maybe by Freddy) and they come to his aid, and basically stand between Billy and Black Adam, and Billy finally learns that there ARE people who genuinely care about him and he lets go of the pain.

[darkknightjrk]

Yeah--at first I wondered if maybe we were going to get something similar to what we saw in Flashpoint with Captain Thunder, but now I think that what we'll get is that as this Shazam is reforming the council of magic or whatever, he'll consort with his own council--his new found family.

[shadowpsykie]

i would kinda be okay with that too...

[bewareofgeek]

Someone call Johnny Bates' lawyers....

(13 parts... at this point I don't care how OOC Billy is. I just want to see this drawn-out fiasco over and done with)

[flint_marko]

This is actually Part 8.

[shadowpsykie]

yep Roman Numberal V= 5 Roman Numeral X=10

[bewareofgeek]

Still far too long, IMO.

[mrstatham]

But aren't they shorter stories anyway by nature of being a backup? Therefore, I don't see how this is too long, it probably hasn't even added up to a full six issues yet.

[superfangirl1]

I really been liking the glowing lighting symbols on their costumes.

[mrosa]

And then people complain Alan Moore says everyone steals ideas from him. Well, at least it's Johns so there's a precedent already.

[nate_abril96]

Wait, what idea did Johns steal from Moore in his Shazam back-up?

[stolisomancer]

A hero with a magical transformation refusing to transform back is a major plot beat in Moore's MIRACLEMAN.

Honestly, though, stealing from Moore is like stealing from Steve Allen; whatever you're doing, he's done it before, so you might as well not stress about it. Internet discussion's too quick to reflexively yell "RIPOFF!"

[theflames]

I wouldn't really call that stealing.

"Becoming something better and not wanting to go back" -- thematically, you'll see that in a lot of stories one way or another, it's a plot point, but not an original plot *mechanic*.

[biod]

I think it's pompous to claim any one narrative device as one author's, even one as great and influential as Moore. He used characters that weren't his and a tropes that many have used before he did and he made magic happen, sure, but he doesn't have some holy right to ownership.

[an_idol_mind]

I still miss the days when heroes acted like heroes.

[espanolbot]

Well he is just starting out, not everyone can get it right first time.

[akodo_rokku]

I miss when "getting it right" was one of Captain Marvel's *powers*. This one clearly does not have the Wisdom of Solomon.

[theflames]

Haha, that's one of the reasons I didn't like the character.

Same with how "winning" is sometimes Batman's super power.

It's a cop out, wish fulfilment, makes for flatness in characters.

[biod]

As I explained here (http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/3994914.html?thread=133026594#cmt133026594), I like one character like that.
"Pure" characters frighten authors, but there are ways to make them interesting:
Maybe the pureness is insufferable to all around. After all, no one likes to have their faults rubbed in their noses and matter-of-fact rightness often precludes modesty.
Sometimes being right is getting a rubber bullet in a game of Russian roulette: better than a bullet in theory but likely as lethal.
Even the best people can't do everything, as many a Superman story has shown.
Wisdom is all well and good, but when divorced from experience it can be dangerous. A thirteen year old with godlike power is a scary thing, no matter how good and wise he is.
Most importantly, I had hoped we had left the equation "Dark & Unpleasant = Realistic & Relatable" in the 90s; pulling the whitest cape in the wardrobe through the mud doesn't make for a nicer cape.

[theflames]

But *none* of this here is dark & unpleasant = realistic.

This is just a child with a personality one could expect from the things he's been through, hell, if they wanted to they could've made him more pleasant with scratches of imperfections, and i'd be fine with it.

But unrealistically pleasant and easy going Billy Batson is just, well, easy. As it is, it's fine, but I'm not going to buy it if someone sells that to me as a complex/realistic character.

'Pure' doesn't frighten authors, some authors love to shine there characters as pure evil (rape and murder happy etc) or always forever in the right. Pure isn't something new, for some stories it's fine, but I'd like to see where this is going for Shazam at least.

---

If an author wants to take the Captain Marvel lore, and apply it to a child who's going to *learn* how to become a good person, I find that more valuable than the child who is already brilliant and morally pure (what child is?) just because the story will be easier to tell.

[auggie18]

There's also the interpretation of Billy being so pure and upbeat as a survival mechanism. He's a kid who has had a lot of terrible things happen to him and he copes with them through positive thinking. Winick's Superman/Shazam: First Thunder did a great job with this. There's a scene during the book where something horrible happens that breaks his upbeat attitude and you see why he needs to keep a certain mindset to stop from totally losing it. (This also leads to a scene where he considers getting rid of Billy altogether and just being Captain Marvel all the time.)

[theflames]

Ahh that is an interesting approach, was that the storyline that was adapted into the animated short? It sounds familiar.

Though at the same time, if we head down that route, sooner or later someone would really need to help him work through the survival mechanic. Since that really isn't how someone should live the rest of their life, stuck on a set amount of emotional notes.

[kaysper]

...Goddammit comic, you almost had it for four panels. You had a glimmer where you captured the moment with getting that elation over flying and that sense of wonder.

And then I swear someone went "No wait, this is too happy. We need an infusion of jerk, stat!"