wake_the_dragon: (eleven and clara)
[personal profile] wake_the_dragon posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Three pages from Avengers Arena #2 under the cut.

I don't like the recap page at the begginning of the comic at all. I know they're going for a Battle Royale homage, but this just doesn't work for me. It feels disrespectful to fans who really like these characters and don't want to see them treated as being expendble.


This issue focuses on one of the new characters, Rebecca Ryker (or Deathlocket as Cammi names her), and I actuallly like her. The issue is narrated by her and it begins imediately following Mettle's death by having another death...already.








I didn't like Mettle's death (or the way he or Hazmat were characterized but that's not the point) but this was incredibly pointless. Red Raven literally had no lines in either issue one or two; I have no sense of who she was as a character and she's already dead. It's obvious she was just written in as cannon fodder which just pisses me off.

Date: 2012-12-28 04:50 pm (UTC)
suzene: (Default)
From: [personal profile] suzene
Did she exist before this book, or was she created just for this moment of supposed humor?

Date: 2012-12-28 04:59 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] thezmage
I don't believe she did, but I wouldn't classify this moment as an attempt at humor. It looks much more like a way of showing off Arcade's deadly force field, so we know why they don't just run away/fly off. Yes, Arcade is taking it flippantly, but that's just who he is as a character.

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Date: 2012-12-28 05:00 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] kevinroc
The Red Raven dates back to the 1940s (created by Joe Simon and Louis Cazeneuve). There have since been multiple Red Ravens.

People seem unsure if this was Red Raven III or a new Red Raven. But most seem to treat her as if she were Red Raven III, who did appear before this series.

As the Red Raven has never made a big impact, it's understandable why people are unaware of the character.

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Date: 2012-12-28 05:02 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
Eh...I can kinda see what you mean with Red Raven, but I think considering the other option--taking an established winged character and doing this--would have made it truly pointless. Out of the two, this was the best option.

But yeah, Deathlocket's kinda interesting so far. :)

Date: 2012-12-28 05:23 pm (UTC)
auggie18: (Default)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
She was an established character. Female legacy hero, daughter of the original Red Raven, protector of Sky Island.

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Date: 2012-12-28 06:38 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
The best option would perhaps have been to have someone notice a bird hitting the forcefield, rather than have someone so apparently naive as to think there would be a way out that was that simple.

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Date: 2012-12-28 05:20 pm (UTC)
auggie18: (Default)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
Poor Dania. I guess since she resolved her issues with Namor, they decided she didn't have any more stories to tell.

Date: 2012-12-28 05:52 pm (UTC)
majingojira: (Default)
From: [personal profile] majingojira
According to comic vine, she's both immortal to a degree and has a healing factor. Since you know more about the character than I, could you elaborate/confirm any of that?

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Date: 2012-12-28 05:35 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Yeah, I'm sorry, Hopeless can try and justify this as investigating teenage characterisation whilst they're under fire, but that is absolutely bullshit. This is just a meanspirited excuse to murder characters who deserve better that Marvel should know better about, given the oh-so-positive response DC got to murdering children and teenage characters not five years back. Fuck this book.

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Date: 2012-12-28 05:42 pm (UTC)
dewinged: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dewinged
I...

Okay. Considering recent events in the US news, doesn't anyone else think a comic whose selling point (from both ads and the writer's interviews) seems to be 'lol dead kid characters' is in supremely bad taste?

Date: 2012-12-28 05:48 pm (UTC)
majingojira: (Kyon Sad)
From: [personal profile] majingojira
A lot of people have made similar comments, Marvel so far has said nothing and hoped no one will notice.

Date: 2012-12-28 06:40 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I think it would be cheapening the real tragedy to link it to this, and then if they don't then we get into the realms of "The people of Sandy Hook have a lot more to worry about than a comic, and whose else opinions really matter in such a case.

Date: 2012-12-28 05:47 pm (UTC)
majingojira: (Default)
From: [personal profile] majingojira
Aside from the death, the issue was actually rather interesting, but the death was so pointless, wasteful and otherwise crappy that it's really hard to ignore. It destroys any good faith Hopeless was trying to garner. It's a death based on a PUN. Each death so far has been undermined and only serve to squander storytelling potential.

They were poorly done and worst of all, they were dull. Interesting characters marred by a horrifically executed scenario.

Date: 2012-12-28 06:25 pm (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
How long do you think it'll be before the series acknowledges and just starts using the nickname "Axebro" that the internet gave to Anachronism? Because Axebro is a far better name than Anachronism.
Really though, this does nothing to allay my fears that this series is and will continue to be utterly tasteless. I give Hopeless the benefit of the doubt though and assume that this was meant merely to establish the stakes, often happens in these kinds of stories, and not merely as shitty joke about birds flying into shit and how funny it is that that teenage girl snapped her neck and died.
Definitely looking forward to seeing this reset at the end though, this is so not something I'm interested in and it seems like a waste of good characters.

Date: 2012-12-28 06:42 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
just starts using the nickname "Axebro" that the internet gave to Anachronism

Sorry, you've lost me completely there, what's Axebro and what context does anachronism have to this story?

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Date: 2012-12-28 07:59 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Spidey & MJ)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
What's sad about this is that there are so few new original characters nowadays that strike a response with readers; The Runaways, Avengers Academy, etc.

I mean can you imagine how many classic characters wouldn't be here today if Marvel operated under this mentality in the 60s?

Date: 2012-12-28 08:19 pm (UTC)
majingojira: (Default)
From: [personal profile] majingojira
Luke Cage, Iron First and their supporting cast would be among them.

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Date: 2012-12-28 09:52 pm (UTC)
urkonn: (Default)
From: [personal profile] urkonn
I actually liked this issue. First thing, anyone reading this should understand that there's going to be one death for every issue.
So once the Red Raven died I actually relaxed. Sure it was because I didn't know her. I'll be much more upset once they start killing the characters I really like. But then I will just tell myself it's all virtual reality, so there is that.
As for the story: We got to know Deathlocket, and some of the other Braddock kids and they do seem interesting. Too bad I'm going to root of them all to die so my Runaways can stay alive longer.

Date: 2012-12-28 11:36 pm (UTC)
sevarem: Phoenix!Jean is happy (Default)
From: [personal profile] sevarem
This is disgusting. I don't read comics to watch teenagers get killed off. Fuck this book.

Date: 2012-12-28 11:51 pm (UTC)
big_daddy_d: (Default)
From: [personal profile] big_daddy_d
So Red Robin and Raven's love child leaves the dcu only to end up dead in Murder World.

Date: 2012-12-29 12:43 am (UTC)
althechi: (WHAT)
From: [personal profile] althechi
I would imagine that would make Redwing would her godmother then...

...This has to be one of the worst crossovers ever. =[
Edited Date: 2012-12-29 12:44 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-12-29 01:28 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
all character deaths do is make me annoyed with the writer

Date: 2012-12-29 12:23 pm (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
While her death wasn't required, as soon as it happen I saw it for what it was, fodder and demonstration.

Not every character here if want for realistic diversity is going to be at the top of their game, and some will die in ways that simply won't look heroic, epic, heart wrenching or fulfilled.

Not everyone can go out in a blaze of glory. If we're going to do this story, that much has to be a rule, imagine if every character went out in some epic, wonderful, history making way - it can't really work in that manner. The story would suffer more for it.

---

Fodder is something that happens in story, and this sums up the question of why they don't fly away by having a character act on that thought herself, and pay for it.

Her death aside, Death Locket and the Braddock Academy are pretty cool, and this was a successful issue... I'm kind of really hoping for a Braddock Academy series after this...

Date: 2012-12-29 01:25 pm (UTC)
majingojira: (Angry Monkey)
From: [personal profile] majingojira
It was dramatically dull and potential robbing, as was the prior death to be perfectly frank. That's sort of summing up my take on it: its dull and trying to hard to be hip. Part of that is within Arcade's apparent character arc, but it leaps into meta-narrative levels pretty easily.

Mettle was killed only to metanarrativly show that "The stakes are real!" and so on, but it was done in such an uninspired and over the top manner that it became utterly unreal. The third strike comes when you remember that the nobility of his sacrifice was undermined not 2 pages prior when he was willing to throw his friends under the bus for his girl. Hard to be noble after that, More like "Selfish".

"I had to kill either Hazmat or Mettle" Hopeless said, but honestly, no. No he didn't. That he apparently believes that is not a good sign for this thing's future. He could have earned a kill himself, instead he banked on someone else's work. Just as I feared.

The second death was a pun to a character with no lines. We couldn't have had narration from her perspective initially instead of Deathlocket's?

Hopeless demonstrated that he doesn't really know how to kill anyone (nor how real world death games work, but neither did the things he's aping either). He focused on the survivors rather than the ones who die, which is a cardinal sin as far as writing goes IMO. Furthermore robbed the one thing that gives death meaning in fiction: it's threat. Death itself is dull and dramatically stale. It's the buildup to it, the looming threat, the suspense of when it will happen that's actually interesting. Hopeless does not appear to know that. Sure, a kill might be made visually stunning and so one, but once the moment passes, it quickly fades from the audience.

Just as a comparison, I got the most recent volumes of Hellsing Ultimate for Christmas this year and comparing it to Arena in terms of how kills are handled is like comparing Shakespeare to Roger Coreman. Sure, there's lots of FACELESS mooks who die, but these kids aren't faceless. And even in Hellsing, points are made to boost the mooks and minor characters even with only a few lines of dialogue.

Here, we get undermined nobility and bad puns.

Deathlocket was a success as most things not related to the paper thin premise, Arcade himself and established characters are, but it's not enough to overcome the undermining that's already occurred.

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Date: 2012-12-29 09:36 pm (UTC)
practicalcat: Cropped panel of Kid Eternity as Tula (Aquagirl I) walloping Brother Blood (Tula disapproves)
From: [personal profile] practicalcat
Bloodstone? Did Hopeless give Elsa another half-brother, this time on her father's side?

...Yeah, that's the only thing I've got for this other than BLINDING RAGE.

Date: 2012-12-30 02:04 am (UTC)
mortimerwclankitybritches: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mortimerwclankitybritches
Im just going to keep chanting to myself "its all just a dream/simulation/mephisto" until this embarrassment ends.

Even though I know damn well that Marvel is likely foaming at the mouth to both fridge who they see as "boring" or "unneeded" characters, and to inject several quarts of bland, soulless, and utterly unwanted grimdark anywhere they can, I am more than happy to pretend this pile of shit is not happening, and will patiently await the inevitable retcon

Date: 2012-12-30 02:58 pm (UTC)
majingojira: (I Reject Your Reality)
From: [personal profile] majingojira
Oddly, they're fridging the best and brightest/most loved from their various cult favorite series. "Boring" and "Unneeded" would be the ones who didn't make the cut.

Which lends credence to the "it's all fake" theory that has other things supporting it.
Edited Date: 2012-12-30 02:59 pm (UTC)

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