Deathmatch #1

[superboyprime]

'The one concept seeming to generate a ton of interaction between fans is the idea of "Who would beat whom?" There are message boards dedicated to superhero rumbles and so on -- it's really pretty extraordinary the passion these arguments bring forth... So with "Deathmatch," we have committed fully to the idea of fights between characters to the death.' -- Paul Jenkins

Comments

[philippos42]

Well, at least it isn't the Teen Titans?

[auggie18]

...isn't that pretty much what the Big Two are doing anyway? Minus the death, I suppose. Sometimes.

[majingojira]

Honestly? It was stronger than Arena's first issue. It wasn't great, but it's setup was a lot stronger.

[kamino_neko]

Do you mean Countdown Arena (the first thing I thought of), in which case...definitely, but that's a low bar, or Avengers Arena (which I haven't read), in which case...well, it's still a fairly low bar, but I can't say whether I agree or disagree, heh.

[majingojira]

I primarily meant Avengers Arena, but what you say isn't untrue either.

[captainbellman]

*Snrrk* Sorry, was something interesting happening?

*Peers Blearily At Writer Credit*

Oh, of course not. Carry on, then.

*zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*

[alan_smithee]

"'The one concept seeming to generate a ton of interaction between fans is the idea of "Who would beat whom?" There are message boards dedicated to superhero rumbles and so on -- it's really pretty extraordinary the passion these arguments bring forth... So with "Deathmatch," we have committed fully to the idea of fights between characters to the death.' -- Paul Jenkins"

Problem is - the fun in that sort of conversation is drawing on the back-stories of the two characters who are 'fighting' and trying to make sense of often decades of history and power-changes. That doesn't work with a lot of nobodies simply made up to be knock-offs of more successful heroes, there is nothing for the fan to connect to - you might as well line them all up and mow them down with a machine gun in the first panel.

Note: I'm not saying this can't be a good story but rather that if the only hook is "who beats who" then it's going to struggle.

[theflames]

... That's true, didn't realise that till you mentioned it, sure it won't break this story, but it does take away some of the theory behind it.

[kamino_neko]

Yeah, that's my problem with it.

If they were going for that, they could have at least made the characters obvious knockoffs of the extant ones usually thrown into these discussions.

As it stands, simply going with 'Superhero Gladiator matches! Even less holds barred than the big guys!' would have been a better way to promote it. (Maybe throw in a reference to the Hunger Games, or Battle Royale since the former is pretty big right now, and the latter getting a boost from that...even though those both involve kids, a lot of people seem to have missed that that's part of the point of both, so...)

[silicondream]

Problem is - the fun in that sort of conversation is drawing on the back-stories of the two characters who are 'fighting' and trying to make sense of often decades of history and power-changes. That doesn't work with a lot of nobodies simply made up to be knock-offs of more successful heroes, there is nothing for the fan to connect to - you might as well line them all up and mow them down with a machine gun in the first panel.

Plus, the "to the death" condition in these arguments is usually just another way of saying "these characters will fight to the absolute best of their ability and hold nothing back." The point is not to fantasize about the heroes actually dying; if the Silver Surfer can take 10 out of 10 against Wildcat via effortless Telepathic Cosmic Bliss Orgasm, nobody's gonna complain. It's supposed to be a conclusive fight, not a snuff film.

[espanolbot]

Anyone want to bet that somehow the protagonist's brother is behind this? Like his means of reducing the numbers of vigilantes is by making them fight each other to death against their will?

It is interesting that they seem to be playing up the horror of this scenario more than in some other deathmatch-type series'. Normally the fear is more that their friends might kill them as opposed to the fact that they might kill their friends, if that makes sense.

I think that there was a similar thing in I Can't Believe It's Not Justice League were Mary Marvel was forced to nearly beat Captain Atom to death in one of Roulette's gambling schemes. When she snapped out of it she nearly had a mini-nervous breakdown over what she did.

[theflames]

The rush of snark in the comments is a little disconcerting.

Anyway, seems interesting enough, the origins of those last two members were fairly interesting.

I don't really mind deathmatch scenarios, though they're not my go to storylines. But hey, I enjoyed Battle Royale, why not this? It seems pretty strong from what's been shown here, so did Avenger's Arena btw, which is doing a decent job so far.

[majingojira]

Honestly? Deathmatch is doing it better. Arena has fumbled the ball twice in a row now. Not that Deathmatch is perfect, but it just understands the genre better.

[freezer]

A comic touting "Who could beat who?" comes out, just as Death Battle is about to roll out the mother of all "Who could beat Whos": Goku vs. Superman?

Sticking with Death Battle, thx.

[randyripoff]

Which Superman? The Silver Age completely invulnerable Superman or today's not quite so powerful Superman?

I think Goku would give today's Superman a really hard time, but I don't know if he's got enough to beat him. No chance against the Silver-Age Superman unless his ki powers are magical somehow or he stumbles across some kryptonite.

[freezer]

I believe the match-up was Modern-Age Superman vs/ Goku up until the end of DBZ. The preview segments (this is the first time Death Battles done A preview, let alone multiple ones), they made a pretty good case that Superman could take anything Goku could dish out. Granted, they mostly used the DCAU version to do it, but that tends to be the way they roll.

[randyripoff]

I'd have to agree. I think Goku would give him a hard time, but I don't think he could actually beat Superman, unless he had kryptonite or something like that, and unless Superman is mind-controlled, I don't think Goku would want to win that way anyway.

[randyripoff]

Quite frankly, the entire idea of a deathmatch between so-called superheroes is both depressing and revolting to me.

[suzene]

Is that Butterworm in your icon?

[randyripoff]

Yes, it is. Quite fond of Courtney Crumrin.

[suzene]

Likewise. Always happy to meet another fan. :)

[majingojira]

It's scans_daily. It's never just you.

And that makes three of us by the way.

[silverhammerman]

Somehow it's a lot easier to get behind the concept here since I don't have to worry about characters that I like dieing. In a way, the fact that I'm not emotionally invested makes it easier to get emotionally invested, if that makes any sense.
And it helps that this feels like it's treating the situation with gravity instead of just reveling in killing off characters, like Avengers Arena gives the impression of doing.
The characters aren't too bad either, the superhero genre at this point is pretty much built on just repackaging the archetypes, especially when writers need to come up with a bunch of characters, but here it sort of works given that this is explicitly a more mature version of the old who could be who debates. Plus they look to be giving the characters some interesting spins, this might actually be the first time I've seen a female Batman expy.
Also, kind of a sucker for how they mention that Dragonfly was always really wary about his secret identity, that was always a pretty big thing with Spider-Man way back, and given how off the rails Spidey has become recently I can't help but enjoy reminders of another time.

[majingojira]

In a way, the fact that I'm not emotionally invested makes it easier to get emotionally invested, if that makes any sense.

This actually hits on a hard truth Arena neglects. A truth that has been the foundation of the genre since Ancient Rome: the low attachment/dehumanization of the participants. Gladiators were consdiered sub-human/noncitizens/whathaveyou and given only single pet-names. Their status in Rome was that of slaves.

People did not form strong attachments to them anymore than they would a pet.

The same thing is happening here. Because you weren't strongly attached to the characters, you can form attachments that are off the level the genre requires to be entertained.

It's not weird at all. It's actually the standard model.

I'm still researching for an article trilogy on the subject, but that one fact has struck home the most.