Batman Incorporated #6: Damian Pets

[superfangirl1]

Comments

[shadowpsykie]

So his love of and reaction to kitties is now cannon.... hehehe excellent.

[onceaskrull]

Damian and the Bat-pets. I'd read it.


(But please put a different artist on it)

[randyripoff]

After this issue, is there any question that Gotham's biggest enemy is Batman himself? Do any criminals come to Gotham to steal any more, or do they just come to see how much they can piss of Batman? And if so, how can Batman justify staying in the city if he wants to protect it?

I'm saying this as a fan of Batman, but also one that isn't enjoying the current direction (of course, I'm not enjoying much of the current DCU either). Right now, and for the last few years, Batman has been much more the problem in Gotham than the solution, and I'm surprised Gordon isn't pursuing an arrest warrant despite his friendship with Bruce.

Also, I have to say that I'm starting to realize that I really, really dislike Ra's Al Ghul and Talia. Really, really don't enjoy reading stories about them.

Bleah. Angry old guy rant over. Enjoy your comics, younguns.

[sadoeuphemist]

I don't see how that follows. Talia al Ghul and her dad and the League of Assassins all existed and were doing their thing long before Batman existed. If Batman weren't there the al Ghuls would still be trying to kill most of the people in the world (would've already succeeded in killing everybody? I dunno), including in Gotham.

[mrstatham]

Except Talia's in Gotham now with Leviathan working it's magic because of Bruce and the fact Damian opted to be Robin rather than go back to her. She wouldn't have made it nearly so personal if not for Bruce.

Granted, I don't particularly agree that every criminal comes to Gotham looking for ways to piss Batman off (because who would be stupid enough to do that?), but still. Inc has become a very personal conflict.

[sadoeuphemist]

But Gotham is arguably better off that it is personal. Destroying Gotham is bad for Gotham, of course, but Gothamites are still a heck of a lot better off than if she was still going along with her father and trying to kill off the majority of humanity.

They did this with the Flash and the Rogues, the suggestion that it's better to keep the villains in this personal, never-ending cycle of battling a hero, rather than having them set off on their own and build their own power bases and eventually take over the world or whatever.

[mrstatham]

Um, no. It isn't better off. Because she's only turned her attention on Gotham and brought along Leviathan with all it's indoctrination and brainwashing of young students and the infiltration of Gotham's political and judicial infrastructure and general violence because of Bruce. She never would've bothered with Gotham (likely because she considered it his) until now.

[sadoeuphemist]

This is assuming that without Batman the al Ghul clan eventually succeeds, and most of the people in the world get killed, and Gotham becomes one of many depopulated cities with the few survivors forced into servitude under the new al Ghul order.

[jaybee3]

There was a mini-series back in the 80s, I think called Streets of Gotham (that or some other title DC eventually used for some other Bat-title) and dealt with how civilian Gothamites lived their lives torn between the Bat and his war on Crime and the mini-series made two points that are rarely brought up: a) most of the millions of Gothamites aren't effected by the likes of the Joker, Riddler, Bane, etc. and b) Crime is actually down since Batman came into view because the low-level mobsters, criminals, Joe Chill's of the world largely left for easier pickings in Bludhaven or some other city. To most average Gothamites someone like the Joker or Ra's or Clayface have little to do with them. Which is a reason most of them stay.

[icon_uk]

Though events like the Clench outbreaks, the Quake and NML are all perhaps more generic and plausible reasons for getting the hell out of the place.

[jaybee3]

Villians who get used too much lose their bite. Ra's and particularly Talia have pretty much been at the forefront or the background of not only Morrison's Bat stories but Jason's and (pre-reboot) even others like The Outsiders. By now both are boring. There's a reason they use the Joker sparingly.

[sadoeuphemist]

Uh, they don't use the Joker sparingly at all. I'm pretty sure he's been used more than Ra's al Ghul.

[jaybee3]

I meant continuously and in every story, even in the background. Talia is the main villain in Morrison's saga. Talia was one of the primary villains in the Nightwing book pre-reboot as well as during the period Dick was Batman. Talia (and to a lesser extent Ra's) was also one of the main characters in Winnick's Red Hood mini-series. The only classic villian Bruce had a face-off with when he came back during those month-long "Return" books was Ra's. By contrast, the Joker usually pops up out of nowhere in major storylines (such as Snyder's current one and Dr. Hurt) which makes it all the more meaningful when he does (I know there have been exception to this like the 90s when the Joker was everywhere but I'm talking about the Morrison-era of Bat-books).

[icon_uk]

Talia was hardly a primary villain there as appeared in ONE arc in Nightwing (The superbeing graverobbing one). (Though she was a damn sight more interesting as a character in that arc than I've found the Morrison version)

[mrstatham]

Actually, they do. Morrison's used Joker the most in recent years and was able to take him off the table by force (save for a BOP appearance that shouldn't have happened, supposedly), and he has only just returned to the forefront as a big, lead villain with Death of the Family. Ra's had his big death story, a big crossover for his (unnecessary) return, was the focus of a big story in Red Robin, and so on. Heck, Black Mask under Tony Daniel got used more than Joker in recent years.

[espanolbot]

I wouldn't call Ra's return unnecessary, if only because they squandered Nyssa al Ghul by making her worse than her dad when she should arguably have been more sympathetic.

[icon_uk]

Ra's should have been sympathetic enough, his goal is almost laudable, it's just his methods that stink.

Also not a fan of his more relatively recent conversion from a man who genuinely loved his daughter to the extent that her wishes were paramout even when she wanted to be with Batman, his nemesis, to someone who operates on some weird "Darwinian Dad" principle that anyone who can beat Batman must marry his daughter regardless of her wishes.

[mrstatham]

I think the tragedy of Nyssa being worse than her father was intentional. Not only did she share his views to some degree, but at the same time, he had hurt her so badly in the past that it just plain wasn't surprising she was worse than him. I didn't need her to be sympathetic, I needed her to, you know, actually appear in more than about three stories besides her debut. Ra's return was completely ridiculous because they never gave Nyssa a chance to shine properly - his return happened almost immediately (a year, at tops, I'm sure) aftet she got needlessly blown up.

She wasn't squandered because they never tried to do anything with her. Instead, they were just desperate to have Mr Iconic Al Ghul Daddy back, presumably so they could shove him in a body that the artists could draw to look vaguely like Liam Neeson in Batman Begins.

[icon_uk]

Nyssa's whole introduction seemed to be rather random; an overly convenient OTHER daughter that had never been hinted at before along with things like the reveal that Ra's was a Nazi in WWII, her sexual degradation in a death camp, driving Talia mad, no real plan for her future use, it all seemed terribly half hearted.

And of they were THAT desperate to make him look like Liam Neeson they probably wouldn't have made his new body an albino... not that that mattered much anyway since they seemed to forget it rather quickly.

[mrstatham]

Given the things he put her through, I thought it was at least reasonable Ra's never mentioned her. Plus, he's how old? And Talia's meant to be around the same age as Bruce, usually? I find it highly unlikely that he wouldn't have had other kids, really. Plus, I didn't think Ra's was a Nazi, more of a collaborator who saw something of a mutual end point in terms of goals, really (in fact, it'd be more surprising and unlikely, IMO, if he wasn't, really). Disguise it all he likes with flowery arguments, his plots often involve the death of plenty of people too. As for her future use, I thought Rucka had it laid out fine. She and Talia replace Ra's, and whilst she shares some similarities with him, she's not exactly the same. For instance, she wouldn't waste time fucking around with 'yo, come join us Detective because I ship you with my daughter' like Ra's did. It's not Rucka's fault DC drastically dropped the ball in terms of actually doing things with her, and I never saw DatM as half-hearted. Even driving Talia mad was deliberate and well done over the course of the story. Turn her against Ra's because of what he allowed to happen to her children. Simple.

[icon_uk]

Talia being the same age as Bruce was vague at best, in the pre-Crisis universe it was established that she was actually very, very old and needed to regularly make physical contact with Ra's (even just touching his hand) for his Lazarus Pit suffused body to rejuvenate her. Ra's age was never tied down either for that matter, as was his past, and in many ways I do wish they'd left it that way.

Him having other kids was an option certainly, but the way he treated Talia was that of an indulged only child, so I never thought of him as having THAT many around the place, maybe only one at a time (It would certainly make it easier to remember birthdays).

Yes his plots involve the deaths of millions, which is why I felt him being linked to an actual atrocity involving the deaths of millions was the LAST thing they should have done.

And again, the problem with using Nyssa as shown was that she would be too good at it, without Ra's respect for the Dectective, most of his schemes would have worked. If someone without that respect, who ignores him completely, were to have access to the resources Ra's had, we'd probably all be dead in a week. There would also be a lacking of any resonance, most of Batman's villains are a reflection of him in some way, Ra's is the money and resources that Bruce has, being turned towards selfish/evil ends. Nyssa wouldn't have that "reflection" aspect, so I think would be a tough character to use in a particularly interesting way. IMHO of course.

[darkknightjrk]

Eh...it's been a while since he was the big master player and wasn't just a character on the side, probably since The Last Laugh.

[bewareofgeek]

Note that this is not the first time we've seen Damien with a cat named Alfred. Although it may be the first _chronologically_.

I couldn't get into this issue, unfortunately. The pacing seemed off, like it was treading water.

[darkknightjrk]

Definitely--it feels like you can definitely combine this issue with #4 and still have the same story.

[icon_uk]

Calling a cat Alfred in the future when he has no Alfred is one thing, it's a rather sweet gesture in fact, but calling a pet Alfred when Alfred is RIGHT THERE just makes no sense.

And whilst Damian adopting a cow is merely bizarre, keeping her in the cave itself just seems contrived and stupid, Alfred would never stand for it, if only because cows aren't cave dwelling animals.

[sadoeuphemist]

You can name pets after people who are still alive. We named one of our fish after our dad, and he was the one who bought the things.

(My dad is still alive, the fish are all long since dead.)

[kenwyn89]

I can see it happening in the same way kids used to get named after their parents and I suspect kitten!Alfred will get a nickname or two... Alfie, Fred etc. I made up countless nicknames for my cat!

[icon_uk]

But Damian doesn't even call Alfred Alfred, he calls Alfred "Pennyworth" (Which is, as I've noted before, the correct form of address; in a household, the butler is referred to by their surname, not their forename (Ditto for the head cook and the head housekeeper). Servants below the level of butler/head cook/housekeeper are referred to by their first name.

So when the rest of the family use it as a term of affection for the human Alfred, Damian reserves it for his pet cat. I dunno, it just seems... off.

[sadoeuphemist]

I don't see what's weird about that. Damian's formal and sort of standoffish to Alfred the person, but is more affectionate with the cat Alfred gave him. It makes sense, he's using the cat as a sort of surrogate.

[icon_uk]

Using a surrogate right in front of the person himself is IMHO past standoffish and into the realms of just being extraordinarily, and bloody mindedly, rude.

Whilst Damian CAN be that rude I grant you, "Pennyworth" is one of the few people Damain seems to have ANY respect for so it just feels wrong.

Heck, if he'd even called the kitten Grayson because Nightwing (the other person he has some modicum of respect for) isn't always around, it would seem more apt.

[sadoeuphemist]

I don't think it's rude at all? It's just expressing affection indirectly. It's not suggesting that Alfred's absent or anything, it's because Damian has problems being open and affectionate with people.

Why do you think it's rude?

[icon_uk]

Because he's not prepared to show the basic courtesy to call one of his primary caregivers, human Alfred, the name that he clearly prefers to be called, but WILL give it to an animal he views as a pet.

So when he's in the room with both of them, he won't oblige the human with the courtesy of his name, but will use it for the cat.

[sadoeuphemist]

I don't think Alfred particularly cares? I may have missed something but I don't remember Alfred having a problem with being called Pennyworth. Damian just calls everyone by their last name and everyone's okay with. Like, they think he's a brat in general but I don't think anyone's offended that he keeps using last names.

So it's not an issue of courtesy if no one cares. It's just that he's not comfortable with that degree of familiarity.

[kenwyn89]

I agree, it seems to me Damian goes for a somewhat archaic public school boy approach of calling people by their last names. "Pennyworth" is different from "Mr. Pennyworth." It's more to do with his early upbringing as aristocratic.

Also, having recently seen the great Mr. Stephen Fry vigorously deny that Jeeves is a Butler, I also believe Alfred is a personal valet, not a butler. Especially considering the immensely personal tasks Alfred takes on. Though, like Jeeves, he could "Buttle with the best of them."

[darkknightjrk]

It probably would have worked better if he named the cat in a whispering manner, with Alfred out of earshot.

[pyrrhocorax]

Maybe it's a rare Pygmy Cave Cow, it does look small.

[star_of_airdrie]

the smell of the Batcave... I can only imagine, and I spent most of my free time growing up around horses and cows...

ALL HAIL THE GLORY OF THE BAT-COW!

[chrisdv]

Bat-Cow aside, not a fan of the artwork on Dick & Jason's faces in the "You make Bruce look like a cheerleader." panel. They just seem... Off.

Also, what the hell is Jason wearing? Doesn't look like his Red Hood get-up.

Re: ALL HAIL THE GLORY OF THE BAT-COW!

[chrisdv]

Oh, and how appropriate - Bruce Wayne's son loves cats too.

Re: ALL HAIL THE GLORY OF THE BAT-COW!

[mrstatham]

Jason's wearing the old Wingman costume, I think. It goes back to the Club of Heroes story all the way back in Morrison's early Batman run. Wingman basically turned traitor on the Club, from what I recall, and when it came to Batman Incorporated, Bruce offered Jason the opportunity to redeem two images.

Which, naturally, has much less impact when Jason as of RHATO isn't nearly as horrid a character as he was pre-reboot.

Re: ALL HAIL THE GLORY OF THE BAT-COW!

[darkknightjrk]

Yeah, it is kind-of weird trying to connect the two takes together--although apparently the post-DOTF issue of Red Hood will be an all Jason and Bruce issue where we'll get some connections to make Jason as Wingman make sense.