Avengers #3

[superboyprime]

Comments

[icon_uk]

I was actually sort of enjoying this right up until

"You want my best guess... It's an Avengers world"

Urkkk! How... grotesquely arrogant a statement to make, ever. Tony I can even imagine syaing it (if I view him in the worst light possible) but for Steve to say such a thing... no... just no.

[jlbarnett]

what could he say? If you say something about the human experience, I think that's what calling it an Avenger's world is. There's no other planet in the universe where people came together as superheroes.

[icon_uk]

If you say something about the human experience, I think that's what calling it an Avenger's world is.

Don't get that at all to be honest, the Avengers are in some respects a reflection of humanity, definitely NOT the other way around.

Humans are humans whether the Avengers are there or not. Make a claim for your planet and the breadth of it's people, their capacity for life/hope/perseverance/creativity, not for your own small, self appointed group.

There's no other planet in the universe where people came together as superheroes

Not even remotely true, looking at the likes of the Shi'ar Imperium, Skrullos, and Galador, to name but three.

[khaosworks]

Not even remotely true, looking at the likes of the Shi'ar Imperium, Skrullos, and Galador, to name but three.

While I understand what you're trying to get at, those aren't really very cogent examples - the Imperial Guard and the Space Knights are really paramilitary forces - one under direct command of their government and the latter soldiers fighting against a specific alien threat. The Spacejammers aren't really superheroes in the traditional sense.

I can't think of any Skrull superheroes (at least based in the Skrull empire).

A more apt example might be Xandar, perhaps - as in the Champions of Xandar, before they got massacred.

[icon_uk]

The likes of the Superskrull would count a hero, in Skrull terms.

And given the fact that the Avengers have US government oversight (or do they this week?) and are directly influenced by that, I'd say they would fall into the same broad category as the Imperial Guard and the Spaceknights, the former being answerable to the Emperor/Empress and the latter being answerable to the Grand Director.

[mrstatham]

It's my understanding that the Avengers have basically separated off from SHIELD again, which is why, to my understanding, the very movie-based lineup of the next Secret Avengers will be used in a Secret War-style manner so they don't even know they've been on missions SHIELD sent them on.

[darkknightjrk]

Other planets have one or two, sure, but I do think it's fair to say that the sheer amount of them on Earth makes the planet unique in that sense.

That said, it does sound more like something Tony would say. I would think Steve would reply with something more humble.

[icon_uk]

As noted the Champions of Xandar probably count, I'd still hold that the Galadorian Spaceknights do, and I've seen nothing to suggest that only humans have formed superhero teams, we've just not seen that many other worlds which didn't already have the likes of the Imperial Guard watching over them.

In the old DCU (and current YJ cartoon) it was noted that only humans possessed a metagene and that makes us unique as a species, other races have no such genetic diversity and not inbuilt capacity for meta-powers, and that's why they have an interest in us (and it's that diversty that led to so many humaoid races in our sector of the universe by the time of the Legion, many of them are the result of "seeding" otherwise uinhabitable planets with groups of people whose metagene powers the Dominators had activated and who felt unable to return to Earth. IIRC it was suggested that at the least Bismoll, Carggg, Imsk and Braal were human seeded worlds.

Cap might more plausibly have said that the MU Earth is special because it's got the Nexus of All Realities aligned directly through it.

[jlbarnett]

to me, claiming humanity got the reprieve when others didn't because of some potential is insulting to those who didn't get the reprieve, while claiming it's because of something humanity did that others hadn't is much less so.

[captainbellman]

It definitely shoves Warren Ellis' "Human Beings Can Kick The @*!$ Out Of ANYTHING" into second place. Ouch.

At some point, some writer has to come up with a story where the humans solve the problem and then admit that it was up to chance, experience and ingenuity rather than "WE'LL ALWAYS BE THE SUPERIOR SPECIES!"

[icon_uk]

I remember a scene in Babylon 5, where G'Kar and his aide are pondering humanity, and G'kar notes that of all the species of sentient aliens, only humans would have persevered as far as Babylon 5 given all the problems and disaster they had with 1 through 4. The Narn, the Mimbari and the like would have declared it a failure, and moved on and done something else, but the determination of humanity triumphed and now they had a fully operation, successful space station as a result.

I liked that little acknowledgement that it was, in many sense, our pig-headedness that made us a successful, and unique, species. Nothing big, nothing flashy and nothing that we should be TOO smug about, but that little something different that set us apart.

[captainbellman]

Puts me in mind of Bruce Coville's "My Teacher Is An Alien!" series. In the third (and in my opinion, best) book "My Teacher Glows In The Dark", the eponymous teacher of the first book, Mr. Broxholm, admits why the various councils of alien races are so fascinated by humanity yet so hesitant to make direct contact with it: our brains.

This was written back when the whole "We Only Use 10% Of Our Grey Matter" bullshit was still accepted as fact, so Broxholm sadly explains that as jealous as every alien being is of the sheer massive potential in each individually developed human brain - more so than any other species - the tragedy is that we thus far haven't actually used any of it.

I read this when I was 10, so I thought it more funny than tragic. But as far as we know, something along those lines *might* be why we've yet to have close encounters of the third kind yet. That or our lovely habit of aiming nuclear weapons at things.

[silverzeo]

Yes, because it's a world Skruls wanted, as well as Kree, Shiar Empire, and a dozen other aliens... because it's an Avengers World... what BS....

[sadoeuphemist]

It's literally true though. The only reason that Earth is a spot of great cosmic significance is so that the superheroes on it have plenty of stuff to do. I don't know if there's an in-story reason for why all the cool stuff happens on Earth, but if there is I'm sure it's fairly arbitrary bullshit that's not a satisfactory answer to anyone.

[icon_uk]

A more generic "Superheroes" comment I would have preferred (Something like "Because it will always have heroes who will rise to defend it" would be a much more Steve Rogers thing to say).

After all one of the reasons that Earth IS known in the MU is because it was the first world to actually defy Galactus arriving to chow down on it, or certainly the first planet in countless millenia to manage it, and that's thanks to Reed Richards and a somewhat biased Watcher. The Fantastic Four saved them from theat, not the Avengers.

The X-Men saved the unverse from the threat of the M'Krann Crystal, not the Avengers.

I think the Nexus of All Realities has been cited as being another reason for Earth's pivtoal nature, as is the fact that the last couple of Sorcer Supreme's of this dimension have been human.

None of these have anything to do with the Avengers per se.

[kamino_neko]

After all one of the reasons that Earth IS known in the MU is because it was the first world to actually defy Galactus arriving to chow down on it

Zenn-La doesn't count?

That said, I do agree with you, that line is terrible and OOC for Cap.

[bruinsfan]

Well, Zenn-La kind of brokered a personal services contract to survive, whereas Earth has scared him off more than a half dozen times (and at least once nearly killed him, which lots of aliens were well aware of back in the 80s.)

[lucky_gamble]

If you hated that line, you're going to HATE this review. Take a peek. Personally, it made my eyes roll

http://www.craveonline.com/comics/reviews/203723-avengers-3-life-and-death

[spacebetween]

Yeah that statement just brings back some flashbacks from Avengers Forever. Namely the one future reality where the Avengers ended up taking the world and then started doing the same to other worlds.

[khaosworks]

"One was life. And One was Death."

I guess that means Tony is going to be the one blamed for the next big Marvel disaster (again).

The entire "Everything is Tony Stark's fault" trope is getting a bit old with repetition. I'd almost say that there was some kind of neo-Luddite streak in Marvel editorial to explain why they seem to love to blame Tony so much.

[silverzeo]

So Tony is like the Skinner of Marvel... at least it's a change of pace from Spidey blaming himself...

[chrisdv]

Considering Otto's going to do the exact opposite... I could go for some Peter Parker "IT'S ALL MY FAULT!!!" right about now.

[alexanderlucard]

Well if it helps, Tony = accidentally evil has been around since the 80s. I mean Armor Wars had him go slightly insane and then the 90s had "THE CROSSING" where he was revealed to be an evil stooge of Kang's all along.

[shadowpsykie]

so who is the new Captain Universe? and why aren't the Avengers trying to capture/kill her like they did the Phoenix, i mean they are both women with power... that must threaten the big boys....

[donnblake]

Maybe Captain Universe didn't destroy a bunch of planets on her way to Earth?

[shadowpsykie]

she is god like (she even calls herself a god) and clearly unstable (talking about pies) and just destroyed a "world razer" with a single touch....

[theflames]

The pie thing worries me... he doesn't see her as an issue since she's on his team.

[shadowpsykie]

yeah i know thats what bugs me. i mean she is CLEARLY not stable... but since she is on his team, it's fine.

[auggie18]

Wait until a plot requires her to be acting out of character. Then the planet destroying will begin.


And it will never be explained.

[wake_the_dragon]

Give them time for Tony to build a machine to split Captain Universe into five, causing them to poesses people, and start a new crisis.

[shadowpsykie]

countdown begins..... NOW!

[chrisdv]

OH GOD NO, NOT AGAIN!

*Starts sobbing whilst rocking back & forth in the foetal position*

[shadowpsykie]

no no no no no not THAT countdown....

[icon_uk]

Please let us find out that it's Wanda, just to see the rest of the team bricking themselves in their underwear!

[akodo_rokku]

Her face was shown in other panels in the issue -- she looked quite a lot like Monica Rambeau.

She's probably not Monica though.

[glprime]

DAMMIT!

Now I gotta pay the comic book bookie!

EDIT: I mean I really wanted it to be Monica.

[spacebetween]

Apparently issue 5 will say who this Captain Universe is.

As for why they aren't trying to capture/kill her is probably because in all the time the Enigma Force has been around, it has never gone evil regardless of it's host. Where as the Phoenix Force has a habit of corrupting the host and going on destructive sprees. That's the only reason I can think of. That and they are probably eager to few more big guns on the team.

[protogarrett]

How do you continue to write credible threats when you have a character who could wipe out Thor and Hulk with a have of their hand? With a cast this big I worry. A lot of these new characters like this new Smasher and this new Hyperion got nearly no screen time. Others got one line - literally - and then were banned to the background. I personally feel it's almost impossible to balance more than 6 characters in a book because SO MANY writers simply can't do it.

Still, to be fair this was a good intro I think and I feel many of these issues will be addressed. (Only 3 issues in, anyways...)

[icon_uk]

They might treat it like the Legion of Superheroes, and have a large pool of characters, but most missions won't require all of them, so they can mix and match smaller teams of what seems useful, which adds plenty of variety.

[silverhammerman]

I think that was what they said back when Hickman first revealed that the team was going to be massive.

[lucky_gamble]

Self-indulgent? Pretentious? I can't find the right word to describe what I'm feeling while reading these pages. Maybe I'm coming off as far too critical but the set-up and lag time in order to reach these last few panels just didn't pay off. Dropped it.

[bruinsfan]

Both of those work quite well for me in describing just about anything Hickman writes.

[valtyr]

Hickman, not everything needs to be an epic tale with resonance and symbolism and grandiose language. Sometimes I just want some people to punch some people, maybe do some zapping, couple of wisecracks, Tony builds something.

ONE WAS LIFE AND ONE WAS DEATH? What? Nonsense.

Also, Cap, I think that Avengers world line was a lie, your nose has visibly grown by the last panel.

[silverhammerman]

Oof, this kind of "universal balance"/"Earth is all cosmic and special" stuff is really not my thing, and this looks to be shaping up to be kind of pretentious. Glad I dropped this after the severely underwhelming first issue.
And did Captain Universe always come off this boringly "enigmatic" and godly? I've never read anything with the character before and I'm wondering how much Hickman is rejiggering them.

[mrosa]

Did Captain Universe just show up and deus ex machined the day? Is that what happened, after all the buildup?

[thanekos]

The Avengers section of the Sphere Grid: plenty of abilities, but few places to boost your stats.

Also, " One was life. One was death. " is either a nice hook, or just as meaningful as " One was stuffing. One was potatoes. "

[team_mummy]

Those last captions were a little pretentious for someone humble and old school as Cap. I always get taken out of the story when writers get soooo into themselves and make a guy say OOC things like this. Stop.