Date: 2013-05-05 02:06 am (UTC)
nate_abril96: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nate_abril96
So does that mean the Phantom Stranger is a rapist? If he took this man's life.

Date: 2013-05-05 03:02 am (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 2 of 3 Icons I never change (mangaverse Doc Strange)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
Personally given what was said at the top of the first scan. I don't see any other way to read it other than him being a rapist now.

Date: 2013-05-05 06:12 am (UTC)
blunderbuss: (Default)
From: [personal profile] blunderbuss
To be fair, this is being presented as a really messed-up situation of a desperate and manipulative man wanting to have something he can't. I can't see anywhere where the story is justifying his actions or saying what he did was okay.

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Date: 2013-05-05 08:55 am (UTC)
nate_abril96: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nate_abril96
Also, man is that some terrible dialog.

Date: 2013-05-05 01:09 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Portentous cosmic beings and demons tend to talk in a rather stilted fashion.

Date: 2013-05-05 03:24 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] timefire
Um... "Joshua"? Anybody knows why that name in particular?

Date: 2013-05-05 05:33 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Because "Judas" would be too obvious. Perhaps a bitter sense of humour, since it is what Jesus name would actually have been; Joshua Bar Jospeh.

Date: 2013-05-05 07:47 pm (UTC)
kamino_neko: Kamino Neko's default icon... (Default)
From: [personal profile] kamino_neko
since it is what Jesus name would actually have been; Joshua Bar Jospeh.

Well, Yeshua bar Yosef (or Yosep), but, yeah... Joshua is one of two English equivalents to Yeshua, the other being Jesus.

(Of course, some people would argue it should be Yeshua bar Miryam...)

Date: 2013-05-06 12:07 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] timefire
So killing people and taking on their name is, like, PJ's thing now? Wow.

I just looked up the name 'Judas' on Wikipedia. Couldn't he have used some equivalents like Jude or Judah or something?

I mean, his name choice here is oddly specific enough that I've got a feeling I'm supposed to "get it", except I don't know what it is to get here.

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Date: 2013-05-05 05:16 pm (UTC)
bluejaybirdie: pissed off Oracle does not approve (oracle does NOT approve)
From: [personal profile] bluejaybirdie
I am so fucking grossed out by this comic and all the rape apologism that's going on in the discussion of it.

Date: 2013-05-05 07:14 pm (UTC)
junipepper: (Default)
From: [personal profile] junipepper
Oh Mr. DiDio, what a class act you are. *gags*

Mod Note!

Date: 2013-05-05 07:48 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: Mod Squad icon (Mod Squad)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Please do not cast personal aspersions against creators on scans_daily.

Critique the work, not the person.

Date: 2013-05-05 10:44 pm (UTC)
writeofway: (Default)
From: [personal profile] writeofway
I find it absolutely astonishing that nobody is bringing up the fact that Philip Stark, as shown by his actions and demeanor, was an unrepentant serial murderer.

Make no mistake. I am NOT excusing Stranger's actions in taking over Stark's life and pretending to be him. Although I think that people are so narrowly focused like a damn laser beam on calling out another "rape scenario" that they are forgetting that the man whose life he stole was a monster about to murder his wife and children. I'm sorry, but am I supposed to just forget that?

Should he have taken over as Stark, pretending to be a husband and father? No. It was an exceedingly bad decision done out of a sense of entitlement.

Had I written the scene, it would've been Stranger killing Philip, making it look like a suicide with a note detailing all of his crimes, and ending with Stranger leaving, never to be seen again. There. Done. It might've hurt Elena and the children in the short term, (relatively speaking) but they would've been much better off than being turned into Philip's "Masterpieces."

This was a really messed up situation where if Stranger had done nothing, Elena and her kids would've suffered horrible gruesome fates. But to hear everyone else telling it, it would seem they are suffering a gruesome fate anyway, they just don't know it.

I am going to say this again because I know some will think I'm a rape apologist. I am not; repeat; NOT justifying Stranger taking over as Philip. He was right to obliterate the hell out of Philip. He was wrong to take over Philip's life and pretend to be a loving husband and father. He. Was. Wrong. And it has come back to haunt him, as all major mistakes do and it has ended up hurting those he claimed to love and wanted to protect. There is no denying that what Stranger did was terrible. But so was what Philip did to his victims and what he was going to do to the family he "loved." Plenty of wrong to go around here, is all I'm saying.

My sympathy is where it should be, with Elena and the kids for the way the powers that be as well as the men in their lives use them as pawns in their sick little games.

Date: 2013-05-06 04:34 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] md84
Elena and the children are the only innocents in this whole mess. Poor Elena in particular has no clue that she was sharing a bed with a deranged serial killer and then a cursed supernatural being masquerading as said killer. Objectively speaking her situation has improved since she and her children were going to be murdered that night, but this is still really creepy.

Date: 2013-05-06 04:40 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] silicondream
I don't think anyone has suggested that the Stranger's actions were wrong because Stark deserved better. It's Elena and the kids--and the loved ones of all Stark's victims, for that matter, who would never learn of their fate--who deserved better.

But to hear everyone else telling it, it would seem they are suffering a gruesome fate anyway, they just don't know it.

Yep. It's nice that the Stranger prevented their murder, but we're kind of in "what do you want, a cookie?" territory there.

Date: 2013-05-06 06:55 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
and the loved ones of all Stark's victims, for that matter, who would never learn of their fate

THIS!

Imagine parents, siblings, friends, husbands or wives, sons and daughters. One day their loved one just disappeared, and they could never get closure, always kept hoping that s/he would one day come back.

I really hate how stories with serial killers rarely if ever spare a thought to the other victims, the still breathing one who lost a loved one.

Date: 2013-05-06 07:19 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
It's because these are two different story points. The first one is the hero stopping the bad guy, that's fine, that's what heroes are supposed to do and so isn't really worthy of much attention.

The second is a frankly repellant action which goes against everything a hero should stand for.

The fact the second one is getting more attention than the first one isn't really THAT surprising, is it?

Date: 2013-05-06 03:05 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: (ask the questions)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
hmmm not gonna ring in on this argument... other than to say... is the Phantom Stranger a hero perse? And i mean in any incarnation.

not saying what he did was right. it is skeevy in the very least.

another question... what is the Stranger's mission... because it seems to be treading into Spectre territory....

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Date: 2013-05-06 09:26 am (UTC)
kamino_neko: Kamino Neko's default icon... (Default)
From: [personal profile] kamino_neko
Nobody's got a problem with what he did to Philip Stark (...well, except Philip Stark/Sin Eater)...it's the rest that's morally icky.

In more or less descending order of 'good plan', these were Stranger's options as I see them:

1) Do as he was told. This gets Phil off the streets, protects Elena and the kids, reveals the fates of his victims, and does not result in the creation of Sin Eater.
2) Kill Phil, then and there, but leave his body, and evidence of his crimes. This gets Phil off the streets, protects Elena and the kids, reveals the fates of his victims, and may not result in the creation of Sin Eater (but it may).
3) What he did. This gets Phil off the streets and protects Elena and the kids, but is morally icky, in and of itself, and results in the creation of Sin Eater, which undoes the 'protecting Elena and the Kids' part, and it robs Phil's other victims families of their closure.
4) Rebell completely against the voices and let Phil do what he was going to do. The only good that comes of this is that Sin Eater is not created.

Date: 2013-05-06 10:38 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Option 1 wouldn't be doing as he was told, he was told to allow Stark to kill his wife and kids and then expose him.

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Date: 2013-05-06 06:56 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
What happened to Elena and the kids then?

Date: 2013-05-07 05:10 pm (UTC)
kamino_neko: Kamino Neko's default icon... (Default)
From: [personal profile] kamino_neko
Sin Eater kidnapped them, as part of his vengeance against the Stranger.

What he did to them, after, we don't know, yet. We only even found out for sure he was the one who took them at the end of this issue.

Date: 2013-05-07 08:04 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Thanks for the info.

Date: 2013-05-08 05:04 am (UTC)
leikomgwtfbbq: (NERD RAGE)
From: [personal profile] leikomgwtfbbq
Some days I think of giving the new "Phantom Stranger" series a second chance.

Then I come to my senses and just read the Showcase books instead, and pretend that there is no such thing as the reboot.

I miss the real P.S. :(

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